what is Microsoft Windows (x86) ?

[alissre]

This is not an MFC question, yet I hope somebody could explain me what Microsoft Windows (x86), Microsoft Windows (IA64) are ?
and what are the differences (if there are) between these terms and Microsoft Windows 95/98/2000/xp

thanks

[Andreas Masur]

[Moved thread]

[Sam Hobbs]

The original IBM PC uses a 8088 processor, which is the same thing as a 8086 except using a 8-bit (local?) bus instead of a 16-bit bus. The PC AT uses a 80286 processor. Windows 3.0 and above requires a 80386 processor. Intel also makes a 80486 processor. These are often refered to as x86 processors. The Pentium processor is successor to them and therefore are usually included in the term "x86".

Note that 95/98/ME are versions of Windows that require a x86 processor whereas NT/2000/XP and all future versions of Windows can be (and have been) implemented using non-x86 processors.

[alissre]

thanks for your clarification :)

when you say "8088" do you mean 8088 MHZ ?

[Sam Hobbs]

Originally posted by alissre
when you say "8088" do you mean 8088 MHZ ? Definitely not. The 8088 and 8086 run at 6 MHz.

[alissre]

you are right 8.088 GHz is a bit more than what even a modern PC can offer.

[sleeping]

Originally posted by Sam Hobbs
The Pentium processor is successor to them and therefore are usually included in the term "x86".

I actually do believe that the name Pentium came when Intel developped the next processor after the 80486, which would have been called the 80586. However, by that time, a lot of hardware companies started making "clone" computers (IBM compatible clone), and referred to their processor power as "386" and "486". Intel tried to dispute that, but it was ruled that one could not trademark a mere number (just as Microsoft shouldn't be allowed to trademark a mere word). So they went for a trademarkable name. Pentium therefore comes from the "5" in 80586, Penta being five in Greek.

[JMS]

Intel came out with the 286, 386, and 486 all improvements over the previous iterations either in speed but also featuring memory management or math coprocessor or internal on chip cash improvements.

After the 486 Intel was beseiged by companies which were trying to compete with them. They went to a lawyer and wanted to patent the name 586 which was their next scheduled processor to be released. The lawyer told them you couldnt' patent a number so they changed their nameing schem to Pentium ( 586 ) like pentigon.. five sided building.. yada yada yada.... and Pentium II ( 686 ) like five sided building and one.. yeah that's the ticket....

Intel kept the name pentium even after they released improvements because they had patented the name and are all about buiding up brand loyalty.. Hense the technical series numbers become less important than the legality and brand name considerations.

Anyway X86 refers now not only to the Intel family of processors now but also all the knock off would be competitors like AMD which build clone chips which run the same software built for the Intel family of chips.

(IA64)

Ok now here is a twist in the story. Most of the x86 cpu's were based on a 32 bit cpu. I say most because the early ones weren't they were based on even a smaller cpu register size.
Anyway.. now while 32 bit processors are still the industries bread and butter and cpu speed is where improvements are advertised Intel came out with a 64 bit based CPU. This CPU has advantages of being able to acccess much more memory and thus perform vastly more complex tasks, and CPU speed wasn't a good mesuring stick of it's utility.... Anyway there really is only a small market for it because windows and all the billions of dallors of legacy software are written for a 32 bit machine.. Hense they came up with the new and distinct branch of the Intel family of machines named IA64 for their 64 bit cpu family.


between these terms and Microsoft Windows 95/98/2000/xp


These are operating systems which all run on the x86 based chip architecture. I belive Microsoft has ported 2000 to IA64 though I'm not sure. The only OS which I know runs on the 64 bit chip is Linux which has had a port for a few years now.

[Sam Hobbs]

Originally posted by sleeping
However, by that time, a lot of hardware companies started making "clone" computers (IBM compatible clone), and referred to their processor power as "386" and "486".You are confusing computers with processors. There are an abundance of computer makers but only a few manufactureres of processors, especially the type of processors being discussed here.

There are extremely precise definitions of what a 80285, 80386, 80486 and above can do, in terms of registers and machine instructions. Any manufacurer of a processor that claims to be a certain model must execute instructions precisely according to the definition of those instructions and such. In the past, if a processor did work slightly differently, it was often incompatible with Windows and got a bad reputation. Those
incompatibilities are possible now too except manufacturers are much more careful about avoiding them.

[Sam Hobbs]

Originally posted by JMS
Intel came out with the 286, 386, and 486 all improvements over the previous iterations either in speed but also featuring memory management or math coprocessor or internal on chip cash improvements.Except for performance, I am not aware of any significant improvements to the capabilities of the processors after the 80386. I have never seen software saying it needs a certain model processor beyond a 80386 except for performance.

[yiannakop]

Originally posted by sleeping
Pentium therefore comes from the "5" in 80586, Penta being five in Greek.
it's "Pente" not "penta" :p

[sargon]

Originally posted by Sam Hobbs
Except for performance, I am not aware of any significant improvements to the capabilities of the processors after the 80386. I have never seen software saying it needs a certain model processor beyond a 80386 except for performance.

Well the main improvement (although in a way it does relate to speed) would be heat management. The 386 did not require a fan or evena heatsink becuase so little heat was generated. Heatsinks did not appear until the 486 days. This of course eventually lead up to a fan etc.....

I would have to say managing heat vs. performance is the major improvement :)

[Sam Hobbs]

Originally posted by yiannakop
it's "Pente" not "penta" :p Then why is a pentagon not spelled pentegon?

[yiannakop]

Originally posted by Sam Hobbs
Then why is a pentagon not spelled pentegon?
Clever question...
Actually pentagon in spelled this way also in greek. But, when some words are connected to form a new word, the root is sometimes changed. This change depends on the last letter of the 1st word and on the 1st letter of the 2nd word (I was never good in grammar but something like that happens!). Anyway, 5 is "pende" in greek.

PS:
the same happens with octagon: 8 is "octo" in greek.

[TheCPUWizard]

Back more to the topic...Altought there are not significant differences between the 386 and 486, then Pentuim (586) has a fairly large number of internal differences. There is significant amounts of code that will not run on anything other than a pentium [hint look up RDTSC processor instruction].

Also, just to nitpick, the original PC [8088 based] ran at 4.77Mhz (still have one!). The biggest features of the clones was that THEY ran at a much faster 6Mhz [25.78%]

[Sam Hobbs]

Originally posted by sargon
Well the main improvement (although in a way it does relate to speed) would be heat management. The 386 did not require a fan or evena heatsink becuase so little heat was generated. Heatsinks did not appear until the 486 days. This of course eventually lead up to a fan etc.....

I would have to say managing heat vs. performance is the major improvement :) The extra circuitry that provided additional features and performance caused the heat. Saying that the main improvlement was for heat management implies to me that the processors were intentionally designed in a manner that generates more heat yet nothing else.

[Sam Hobbs]

Originally posted by TheCPUWizard
There is significant amounts of code that will not run on anything other than a pentium [hint look up RDTSC processor instruction].There is significantly more code that can run on a 386 that can't run on a 286. The improvements that a 386 provides are significantly greater than the differences among processors beginning with the 386.
Originally posted by TheCPUWizard
Also, just to nitpick, the original PC [8088 based] ran at 4.77Mhz (still have one!). The biggest features of the clones was that THEY ran at a much faster 6Mhz [25.78%] Yes, thank you for the correction; 4.77Mhz sure sounds familiar. However on the clone, all PC clones also use a 8088, correct? I think there were not 8088 clones then; only Intel made the 8088 which meant that PC clones were the same speed. It is the 80286 that runs at 6Mhz, correct? The IBM PC AT uses a 80286. I still have an IBM PC XT 286, IBM's official AT clone.

[TheCPUWizard]

Sam...

1) The differences between 8086, 80186, 80286, 80386 were a given. I was refering to the statement made by an earlier poster that there were no changes post 386.

2) The 8088 (made by Intel) was capable of running as speeds of up to 7.155Mhz (look at the spec sheets) and later as speeds of up to 12Mhz. It was the motherboard configuration of the original PC that imposed the limit. The clones simply designed "better" mother boards (although they still saved some money by stopping at the 6Mhz limit [ and even then the higher speed rated chips were more expensive])

IBM released documentation that 4.77 was "Faster than any personal user would need". This was along the same lines as "Who would ever need 640K of memory" Which btw was fairly arbitrarily set at 10x the limit of most machines of the day.

[Sam Hobbs]

Originally posted by TheCPUWizard
I was refering to the statement made by an earlier poster that there were no changes post 386.I can't find anywhere in this thread that anyone says there were no changes post 386.

[TheCPUWizard]

Except for performance, I am not aware of any significant improvements to the capabilities of the processors after the 80386. I


Oh and by the way, the poster was YOU Sam!

[Sam Hobbs]

Originally posted by TheCPUWizard
Oh and by the way, the poster was YOU Sam! Note I said significant!. The definition of significant is subject to interpretation, but I used the word intentionally to communicate something. It is not superfluous. In the context I used it in, I was comparing the 386 to the later processors. In that context, I say that there were not significant improvements to the processors after the 386 compared to the improvements to the 386 compared to the 286. For example, Windows 3.0 requires a 386 or higher processor.

[TheCPUWizard]

You are talking about a 10+ year old version of software that was released when the Pentium DID NOT EXIST! How could that possible have REQUIRED something which did not EXIST.....

Windows 2000 (http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/advancedserver/evaluation/sysreqs/)
Windows XP (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/howtobuy/upgrading/sysreqs.asp)
Internet Explorer (All OS)..Strong Recommendation (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/howtobuy/upgrading/sysreqs.asp)

All Pentium...

If you want to get to the number of packages being shipped I could add thousands of links.


Although "significant" is a subjective word, there are some measures that I would think can be takten for granted. Since this is a windows oriented board, I will not even begin to start quoting the number of applications types that have been developed since the Pentium came on the market [because previous computers simply did NOT have the capabilities, not because they were to slow in the capabilities, they DID NOT HAVE THEM AT ALL!!!]

Again, I encourage you to look at RDTSC. See what it means, what it does, and then think about the things you can do with it that there is NO way to do with any other processor previously [except with "significant" external hardware!

[Sam Hobbs]

I have said what needs to be said; I don't have anything more to say that would be significant.