I still dont have a [fulltime] job

[Amn]

This is the modern world, i help many people online every week and sometimes every day, and give advice to my friends when they program C++ and Macromedia products, but I myself have received countless answers rejecting my job applications and have to spend most of my day reading and editing CodeGuru forums, because i just cant sit on the couch with my knowledge when i know there are people wanting to learn somewhere.

Is this unfair or is this unfair ?

Its not a cry for help, but message i d like to carve in stone ;)

And my beloved Psyradio cuts out the stream every 10 seconds, because people who stream good music dont have enough money to buy new streaming server, because they dont have enough listeners, because all listeners like the bogus mainstream music like Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera instead.

And the "Prestige" oil tanker just spilled out 6000 tonns of oil, and the Spain i so wanted to visit is probably bathing in it now.

[proxima centaur]

Maybe you should move to a country where there are more jobs?

Only thing I can say is that you have to persevere and let people know you are looking for a job. Leave your name so headhunters call you.

Once you start working, you just can't stop.

[joan_fl]

Only thing I can say is that you have to persevere
I agree persevere.. Quit feeling sorry for yourself, and feeling something is owed to you. You have more options than answering questions here, or sitting on the couch. Talk to people on here, at bars, where ever you go... Seek and YOU WILL find.

Good luck!

[galathaea]

I really think it might be a location problem. Its weird, what with the internet these days, but you really need to be near a major metropolitan area to have a good job market in this field. I know Mars is beautiful, great walks and beautiful sunsets, but its a bit cold, and not many people there last time I counted...

Also, I'm beginning to envy people in your position. I've been working for a startup company for the past six months. I've had to work long hours, often through weekends, to get the main product line engine functional. Our marketing/investor relations department was until recently only one person and we had no real potential customers or investors. My pay would seem pathetic to a franciscan monk...

But, I stick around, waiting (hoping) for the IPO to hit the fan...

But, really, amn man nam, they call it job hunting for a reason. It requires a keen eye, stealth, agility, and the intelligence to adapt yourself to the situation quickly. And sometimes you don't come home dragging the animal...

[John E]

Few people realise that when they get interviewed for a job, the interviewer is ALWAYS looking for a salesman (or a saleswoman, of course). There are four rules to selling - but the first of them is to sell yourself. Nobody will ever buy your product / talent / service / philosophy, or whatever if they don't buy into YOU. So the name of the game is to SELL YOURSELF.

Before you go for an interview, do some research. Find out about the company. What kind of product does it make? Who are its customers? Who are its competitors? The more you know about these three areas, the more likely you are to be offered a job. If you can bring something new to the company (for example, if you have an existing relationship with one of their customers) mention it - they'll bend over backwards to offer you a job. On the other hand, if you go to an interview knowing nothing about any of the above, you'll get nowhere. It doesn't matter how well qualified you might be. As with most things in life, knowledge and research are the keys to success...

[Ungi]

I must fully agree John and galathaea!!

You have to sell yourself.

But one addition: Some people think the job interview is that you are intervied. I think it should be a talking where you could also ask questions to the company you want to work or also about some privates. A good friend had a "interview" and he and his "interviewer" recognized that they both love to drink coffee and both are experts in it. So they talked about half an hour about coffee. What I want to say is that you should have the courage to talk!

[Amn]

Thanks guys ! And girls of course (you know who you are) ! :cool: You are great !

This is some serious base of thought to consider, and right now i am thinking and thinking. Perhaps you are right - i should move out and move on. And its not that i dont HUNT for my ANIMAL, i actually am quite honest and persuasive to the extreme when writing a job application - i tend to be somewhat aggressive, and telling about my advantages and skills. I am not a couchdweller by nature, never could be. I LOVE to work, and its more danger for me to becoming workaholic than becoming a drunk dude with beer in front of a TV. I hate doing nothing, and thats what freaks me off, not the absense of a job. I am freelancing and I make some good money, but sometimes i just sit there anyway, because there happens to be a gap between my freelancing projects. At those times, i take my time to being on CodeGuru, somtimes i write some libraries for my future usage, but sometimes i sit and think abou thte modern job world ;)
And good money in freelancing world is a very tricky word - it relates to seasons, and many different factors. Freelancing pays better, but less frequent ;) But i am sure you all know that.
I am going to write another 5-10 job applications today :D


It requires a keen eye, stealth, agility, and the intelligence to adapt yourself to the situation quickly. And sometimes you don't come home dragging the animal...


Best one yet man ! - * thumbz up *


Quit feeling sorry for yourself, and feeling something is owed to you


I dont feel sorry for myself. Not the type. I have my modest self-esteem, and nothing can take it from me. I feel sorry for the people who dont hire me, because i can tell what kind of workforce they are using, and sometimes i wish theyd hire me for the benefit of all. So its not that i sit and cry, more like sitting and grining and trying and trying and trying...

...to sell myself
:rolleyes:

[Yves M]

10 things not to do in a job interview:

When asked about your ambitions, do not say that you want and will eventually get the job your interviewer currently has. The boss of a company I worked for during a summer job told me about such an incident.
To go to the interview unshaved, in an old unfitting suit, with a bad hair cut or a loud tie. As with so many things in human relationships the first impression is hard to overcome.
To ask right at the start about the salary and moan if it is not enough. Surprisingly this apparently happens a lot. A good time to ask about the salary is when the interview is nearly finished and it looks like the company is interested in you.
To be too modest. There is nothing wrong with having perspective and agreeing to yourself that you haven't designed and launched you own satellite yet, but insist on your strengths rather than your weaknesses.
To be overly perfect. This is a big problem when you are trying to sell yourself. The interviewer has probably gotten wind of the fact that there are no perfect people, so there is nothing wrong with admitting some weaknesses. It makes you also seem more human.
To lie. Sometimes it's tempting to say things that aren't entirely true, avoid these. Interviewer are humans and as such they can probably tell that you are lying or find it out after checking your references.
Not to know yourself. This is a hard one. If the interviewer asks you what kind of person you are, what your strengths and weaknesses are etc, you should be able to answer.
Not to use opportunities for personal common ground. Ungi's example with the coffee is great. At one summer job, I spent a quarter of an hour discussing my university with the boss, since he went to the same one (albeit quite a few years earlier ;)).
To be shy or to be too pushy. Don't be shy and also ask questions about how the company works internally, what the job is like etc. But don't overdo it. The interviewer will probably not be pleased if you critize the way things run now when he thinks they work well.
To slouch back into the chair, look at the ceiling, bite your nails etc. Standard things, but it's common that when people get nervous they forget about these things. Sit straight and make eye-contact with the interviewer.

These are just a few thoughts ;) I should have added that you shouldn't admit that you are currently unemployed. Employed people are much more "employable". But then again, number 6 comes in ;) So if you don't have a job, insist on the part-time work you are doing or have just completed.

[dimm_coder]

Yves, there are really good remarks :)

Amn, you are still young and all for U in future, in some nearly future, I hope ;) Be persistent and purposefulness.
And know "a price" for yourself. All will be good :)

As for me. I was 3-d year university student when one of our teachers offered for everyone student ( enough fluent with C++ ) to take part in a students program at the one firm. So as result after some time I got work there. Now I have been working here and studing at 5-th course of University.

Also one fun case. It taked place with a childhood friend of my mother. He was chemistry scientist at one of the Saint-Petersburg universities. May be in yours countries all scientists has good money for there jobs but it is not for late USSR and our country now. So once he was in the public convenience :) and already going out of it. But one man said to him that his trousers fly is not closed :) I do not know how after this is possible to start talk, but after some time they were talking about something common :) , he asked him where he from, where he working and
then offered him a work at bank as clerk ( it was avarage of 90-th avarage and for this time avarage bank clerk has more big salary than avarage scientist ) . He took this suggestion. Some time he was working like clerk, than became high and high on the service hierarchy . As result now he is director of one of the department of this bank in Moscow.

So, We never know how we can get something and what we can get in every place in next minute :)

[Amn]

Thanks again guys ! ;)

Well this thread differs from my previous *bragging bragging* thread titled "WHY dont i get hired". That one posed a fundamental question, but this one is more like a steam going out of me ;)

Yves, i am printing your wise comments and posting em on the wall :D Although i was aware of all the parts on the list before, i think you put it rather good there.

Dimm_Coder, as I am Armenian, i lived in Moscow before, and I sure as **** know what the story about the guy with "the untied zipfly" and his future boss was all about ;) <- Nice one man !

Me and my boss used to talk just about everything all the time, until i realised that relationship is taking a quite funny and possibly dangerous direction. THe whole thing ended in a bankruptsy, and i was left out with a wrong attitude to my boss after i needed to extract my salary by law. The point is, that making just too much friendship with the boss is not that good of a thing to do, except in situations where you already were friends or/and had a common ground to becoming friends. Otherwise, be careful - bosses tend to make buddies with everyone in their company - which is sometimes good, as they seek a general good atmosphere and recognition in their job environment, but it happens they do it for the purpose of gaining a higher ground among the employees so that its easier for them to swing for their own interests, and harder for the employees to swing at sharp angles, instead of continuing being friends, and agree with the boss, talk with him, and well, generally it might be a psychologial move. The most scary part is, that it has become a sort of habit in some countries, because it is widespread and generally accepted. Of course, noone knows what hides behind such moves until its a turnpoint. I hope you guys are REAL friends with your bosses !

[dimm_coder]

Dimm_Coder, as I am Armenian, i lived in Moscow before...


Oh, Amn, I haven't known it! If it is not so big secret, where are U living now? ( of course, do not simply say that it is Mars :D )

[Krishnaa]

So I can say that you came out of nervousness...Gotta confidance.

One more I will say ,this is right time to increase your patience level...Almost everybody walks through such situation , if he didnt walk he will be pushed..But when you came out of this phase you should have collected more experience of life and confidence.

Best luck ..For everybody who needs it.

[Amn]

Yes, i am filling with patience like a wine barrel in French stocks ;)
We'll see when the wine is old enough...

Dimm_Coder i am terribly sorry to be such a turnoff, but I am, in fact on Mars right now :rolleyes:

Its actually pretty cool here, atmosphere is breatheable, not like NASA tells you guys. Those peeps, always lying to the public.
Yeah and what about no water ? There is plenty of water here,
the place teems with water. No chicks though....Hence the advertising campaign.

[scarab_cn]

Hai,Amn
I think that Yves M is very right!
Addtional:Be confident !

My boss said that my confidence has impressed him a good impression,so he hired me.

Good luck to you!:p :p ;)

[Goodz13]

So the name of the game is to SELL YOURSELF.

Seriously though. When I was looking for work, I didn't have any real experience and all the companies wanted experience. So I pretended to be a fictious company to get experience so I could point potential employers to a website and see what I've done.

Before I knew it, that fictious company started to get real contracts. I didn't like it a first because the companies that I was trying to get full time work with, only wanted me to do about 3 months at a time and I'd go a few months without work, but within the last year, I've kept very busy.

So you could always try that.

[Goodz13:Edited:I thought that someone might take offence to a joke]

[scarab_cn]

Amn
Do you have a good job now?
Best wish to you

[phil edney]

Amn,

I too have been in the 'gis-us-a-job-mate' section of the population. I went through an Engineering degree and ended up doing car repossessions and building site labouring. I had so many rejection letters that I had to get extra folders with separators for each letter in the alphabet.
I then started a course on IT. Just general IT, but it was vocational IT. This was a year long course that had a 'work-experience' component to it. By the time I left I had two job offers, one of which hadn't even interviewed me (and believe me, I sure ain't nothing special - there are some bloody amazingly clever people out there).

Now I am directly involved in the selection of employees.

The one thing that always puts me off is disinterest. You get a load of people from an agency and half of them are not really interested. They just want a job, any job. You will also get a percentage who appear to be disinterested, but who have a serious language problem. They are no good either.
I won't reiterate all the rules from Yves M, but the first impression is key. I'm NOT talking about how you walk in the room, but those first few minutes where you are introduced and the interview begins. The way you sit, the way you look at people. I expect some nervousness, but it's easy to recognise. Be friendly but not their friend. Be polite. Once you’ve got going, if you don't know the answer, then say so. Bulls@#t is an immediate rejection. Always highlight your skills with real life examples, maybe from previous work, maybe from other interests. Don’t go for a job you cannot do, because that’ll get you kicked out!
Another important thing to remember, the person interviewing you might not know how to run an interview. You should be able to assess if they are experienced or not and use it accordingly, but never take over.

Of course if the job market is poor, then things are more difficult. Don't bother with Aus, the market is just starting to pick up but it's still not exactly stable.

Find something in what you do that is marketable to a company….and keep on going….