What kind of programmer are you?

[John E]

I’ve been a CodeGuru member for a couple of years now. I joined thinking it would be a useful forum for exchanging ideas and tips with other programming professionals. And most of the time, it is. But over the years, I’ve noticed something on CodeGuru that I’d never noticed before in real life. There seem to be 5 distinct ‘categories’ of programmer. Which one do you belong to and can you think of any others? Here’s a light hearted, if somewhat irreverent look at my 5 categories….

1) The Guru, or “Consummate Pro”: These guys are so clued up, you wonder if they were formally trained or if they were just born with a natural talent for programming. Probably, it’s a bit of both. Yves M is a fine example of this category. Mostly, these guys are Moderators now and some of them (not you, Yves) don’t contribute much to the discussions any more – which is a shame – because if they don’t take control of the forum once again, they’ll be overthrown by the next category….

2) The “Formally Trained Pro”: These guys are the concert pianists of the membership. Accomplished and highly qualified “exam passers,” they know it all. However, like real concert pianists, they tend to be purists and prima donnas who think that all other pianists should be shot and/or sent to a Siberian salt mine! Give them some sheet music and they can play Mozart till the cows come home – but you just know they couldn’t play 12 bars of rock and roll if their lives depended on it. Also, like all prima donnas, they’re basically snobs who like to spend their time *****in' with everyone else about methodology and minutiae. Okay, they voice their opinions loudly but their advice, when given, is only ever given grudgingly. Even then, they usually tend to inflame a debate, rather than helping to settle it. To me, this is the most loathesome group among the membership. I daren’t even give an example…

3) The “Intermediaries”: This is probably my favourite group. These members have a formal background (though, if they’re like me, it was probably a long time ago) but most of what they know, they’ve learned through experience. They don’t claim to be “experts” but they seem to be the only group that has a genuine interest in helping others. Unfortunately, they also seem to be the smallest group among the membership.

4) The “Completely Self Taught”: For my money, these members are the second most dislikeable group and boy, these guys are hard work. In any professional discipline there is little to commend the “self proclaimed genius”. People who are self taught have usually picked up lots of bad habits and weird ideas. So much so, that their advice tends to confuse others instead of helping to clarify things. Almost to a man, these members have the congenital disability of being unable to read other people’s questions. They join in debates and offer advice which is way off beam and sometimes completely irrelevant. But one thing really puzzles me about this group. How come they are almost all “Elite” members? For me, the words “Elite Member” and “Bulls***ter” have come to be synonymous. Some Elite Members don’t fall into this category at all though – Sam Hobbs, for example (Sam, please change your Elite Member status for the sake of your reputation!)

5) The “Absolute Beginner”: What can you say about this group? We all had to start somewhere and we all know what it’s like to be in a minefield without any clue as to where the traps are. Occasionally, a ray of sunlight shines through the fog, identifying one or two rookies who seem to have potential. But for most of them, you wonder why they ever got into programming in the first place. I can live with the fact that they ask inane questions – after all, I was a beginner once and I know I asked dumb questions too…. but why do they always have to post their questions to completely the wrong forum??? Like all newbies, they need to respect their elders and stop messing up a system that’s supposed to be helping them.

Any more categories anyone? Keep it light hearted though!!

P.S. You've probably gathered that I had sweet FA to do today!!!!

[Yves M]

Well, since I'm a Guru and moderator, I'll move this thread to General Discussion where it's more appropriate ;)

I'll think of some answers :)

[Andreas Masur]

Well...if I would follow your suggested groups I would be definitely the type of number four.

I never studied computer sciences or similar neither at a university nor somewhere else. Everything I learned and know about the complex field of programming is completely self-thaught...

Since I usually do not tend to categorize myself, see this just as an information how I became a programmer... :cool:

[John E]

Okay Andreas, I'll take it that you're an exception to this group, just like Sam. Wouldn't it be fun though if we had a "Bulls***ting Member" status? I wonder how many people would join it? :)

[gjs368]

I would probably rate 66% category3 and 34% category4 - Is there a 3.66?

[John E]

Well, you'll have to think of one! :D

[s. roelants]

Just some thoughts
I think that if you've been writing code for several years , and have typed in several thousand pages of code, then you'll be a bit of all categories.

For certain subjects you'd have the guru status and for others you'd have the absolute beginners status, the possibilities of programming are (as far as i know) endless. Or some status in between.

Quite hard to categorize yourself then.

I think if people are genuinely trying to help, although the answer could be completely off, it's still a well ment effort. (i could be totally wrong :D )

However, knowingly posting messages , that have no value whatsoever in within a thread is a serious crime. Stuff like "read a book about *** before asking questions" and so on.

I'm quite sure everybody has read posts where the previous statement would apply, but replying in that manner obviously doesn't give added value to the thread, and doesn't help anybody.

Thus i would rate myself the average :)
float rating;
rating = (1.0+2.0+3.0+4.0+5.0)/5.0;

which would be 3 (looks like i could have used int), hmmmm let's check , what was 3 again

Steven Roelants

[Yves M]

Actually I don't know where you got the idea from of putting me in the first category. I wonder if it is because I'm a moderator and you don't want me to edit too many of your posts :p

I would put myself rather in category 3 (seems to be the most popular one anyways, I wonder why ? :p) I did study Computer Science, but most of what I would call my skills, I've got them through trial and error and reading books and the internet.

Actually if you are thinking of Sonu for category 1, he has been on holidays for more than a month now, so it's not surprising he doesn't post more ;)

I'm actually not sure about category 4 either. I think there are quite a few real gurus in there and really helpful ones. And no, I'm not getting paid by CG for saying this :p

[galathaea]

This may be a generational thing. Many of those I grew up with were self-taught programmers because personal computers were becoming more of a household item. I can understand those who were in college before the apples and pcs became popular needing to have a formal education to gain practice in programming, but my generation and those since have had a different experience. Often, real programming training was not available before high school, but we had these machines at home with interpreters built in and friend networks (and over the past 10 years, the internet) to get compilers to play around with.

I did get training on how to move the turtle around and do tricks with Logo in 1st grade. And I took a c++ class in college to meet a requirement, but that was after I had been using c++ for some years and my only real problem in the class was meeting the teacher's (never stated -- always graded) commenting guidelines. All other languages and all OSes I learned on my own, much like a lot of my friends. Sure, when we were younger (and still I believe in category 1) we had weird idiosyncracies, but self-teaching taught us more how to get out of those than I think a college degree could have. None of my friends in the computer science program at my college (undergrads and masters -- don't know about PhDs...) never once read a single book in Stroustrup's c++ In-Depth series, essential reading in my opinion for reaching level 3 as a c++ programmer. Other languages were just as poorly taught.

Education is getting better for younger age groups now (some are getting introduced in elementary school finally) but my generation at least was stuck with either falling into category 4 or being left out of the loop for a long time if category 3 was their objective.

And those of us with inadequacy complexes (like myself) who are in my generation are still studying furiously any references we can find to become category 1s...

Just my random thoughts...

[irona20]

I always will be in group 5 :( Despite of I studied Computer Science :D
For many years I have spent programming, I will never know quite about programming.

[John E]

Originally posted by irona20
For many years I have spent programming, I will never know quite about programming. Hang on in there mate, we'll get you into group 3 yet!


_____________________________________
A "cynic" - it's what an idealist calls a realist -
Sir Humphrey Appleby

[Platinum Plus]

Group 3 I think :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Doctor Luz]

I agree with you, john, in the fact that these 5 categories exists but I think it's a big generalization. There are near 90000 gurus and sure some of them are out of those 5 categories.

In my case ,for example, i think i am between 3rd and 5th categories. I am physicist, but unfortunatelly for me in my university there wasn't any course about computers or programming, can you belive this?. Then just finishing university i began to work in a laboratory and I had to learnt quicly some powerfull languages like visual c++ because we need to develop some special technical sofware and in the world of bussiness the time is gold.

Then I am an absolute beginer in some c,c++ visual c++, techniques, including some basic techniques that surely is well known by everybody in group 5.

But I know very well other matters, those that were necessary for me to learn for developing my software.

When I need some special feature in my software i try to learn about it, But I can spent much time learning because i have not much time, my work wastes almost all my time.

Sorry for boring you with the details of my sad life.

[SolarFlare]

I would put myself in group three.

BUT ---- you're not going to get good answers if you have so much opinion in your descriptions of the types. People will be like "Oh, that's the good one, right? I must be that one." Be impartial and you will get more accurate results. If we've learned anything from history it's that mixing opinion with fact can have disastrous effects.

ALSO ---- why not make a poll to see in which catergory people consider themselves to be? It would be better to do it now, while the thread is young, if ever. If you look at the "Where are we from?" thread, the poll cannot be changed because there are already too many people who voted "other" and it can't be remade because there are way over a thousand posts. If you remake this thread now, you wouldn't have a great loss. To the moderators: shouldn't there be some way to insert a poll into an existing thread? Or if not, shouldn't you be able to copy posts into a new thread?

[ImanX]

I don't how many people like me are out there... I'd say I fit into the third category (formally educated, like helping out) but I just don't have the time to read and reply that I'd like.

A note on formal education - I learned a lot of valuable things in University, but most of what I do on a day-to-day basis at home and work are either self-taught or friend-taught. I wouldn't trade my education for anything... But I know some people who have worked their way through the same or similar courses and who have little self-taught or friend-taught skills and I wouldn't want to be in their shoes (I remember showing a friend how to install RAM in our last year of our 4 year computer science degrees).

I'll take a healthy combination of education and self learning any day.

[Yves M]

Originally posted by solarflare
To the moderators: shouldn't there be some way to insert a poll into an existing thread? Or if not, shouldn't you be able to copy posts into a new thread?
Unfortunately there is no way to "pollify" a thread ;) But yes, if you create a new thread with a poll I can move everything into there. I would definitely revise the categories for the poll though ;)

By the way some time ago I posted a similar topic (http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=212785). It's not the same but still interesting reading material :)

[John E]

I think that a poll sounds like an interesting idea - though, as you all say, the categories would have to be less "emotionally" defined and more "scientifically" defined!!

One thing that interests me about this thread though, is how many people say they don't quite fit into any of the categories (or alternatively, that they're "somewhere between category X and category Y") - but so far, nobody has been able to define a new category. :confused: :confused:

Another thing that seems to be emerging is that many of us have the same, strange mix of being formally educated in one language, then ditching our education and being self-taught in a different one. That is certainly true in my case. At college I learned Fortran and Cobol (both of which I've forgotten) but I now program in C++ which I picked up from books and practical experience.

I think that your earlier idea for a poll (Yves) was basically a good idea but, as you say, a bit too wide ranging. Maybe it would be more practical to find out what languages people learned when they were starting out and compare that with the language they mainly use now. For example, I'd love to know if C# is really as prolific as Microsoft says it is - or are we mainly staying loyal to our beloved C++? Perhaps the question shouldn't be "What kind of programmer are you?" but instead, "What type of programming do you do?" and "What language do you use for it?" Does that sound feasible for a poll?

[Yves M]

Well, the what language are you using has already been discussed (http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=208672) quite a bit ;) Since there is mostly C++ and VB on codeguru, I wouldn't expect anything very different.

Your question here is more "What kind of Guru are you ?" It's hard to find categories that fit everyone for this type of questions :/

[Xeon]

From John E:

Any more categories anyone? Keep it light hearted though!!


One more category : complete Crap-style Codegurus.
For a start, Platinum Plus fits into this group.(let's applaude Platinum cutie here, who has not made even 1 serious post!!! :D:D)
But for me, I think I would fit into category 5, cos' although I post crap 85% of the time, no one can defy the fact that I post proper Visual C++ questions, and I even help out once in a blue moon.


Wouldn't it be fun though if we had a "Bulls***ting Member" status? I wonder how many people would join it?


Please no.....this must never happen. If it does, I'm sure to become one of 'em, and this sucks.

From Irona20:

I always will be in group 5 Despite of I studied Computer Science
For many years I have spent programming, I will never know quite about programming.


Hmmm.......fancy a **** studying computer science. Come to think of it, it's kinda cute. I mean, a **** who studies computer science but isn't nerdy. Darn cool.

The truth is that your boyfriend would prefer that you go eat cute stuff and watch cute movies instead. Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets and The Lord of the Rings : The Two Towers are gonna be out soon. So, help yourself, Irona.

Of course, real men prefer cute gurls with some brains to cute gurls without.
:cool::cool:

[SolarFlare]

To settle this problem, I think I'm going to start a thread called "What language did you start off with?" But first, I need a rough sampling of what languages should be included in the poll, so I don't end up with a "where are we from" poll where every other post is a complaint about "my country isn't on the list". So, list what languages you think should be on the poll before I make it. Also, there are dozens of kinds of Basic. I don't know what I'm going to do with that yet. I started off programming with True Basic Bronze, which probably nobody here has ever programmed in or maybe even heard of, so it would be ridiculous to give each "Basic" language its own section. Possibly I'll have "Some type of Visual Basic" and "Some type of Non-visual Basic".

[John E]

Hey Xeon,

How you know Irona20 is a ****??

It's no wonder you're a Guru!!!

And Solarflare - I'll start you off with the obvious ones:-

Basic (do we really need to specifiy which type??), Assembler (ditto), C, Pascal, Fortran, Cobol, Logo, Lisp, Forth, Rexx, Modula-2, Modula-3, Perl.

For a REALLY comprehensive list with s**t loads of langauges (most of which, I'd never heard of) visit

http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/

P.S. It would also be useful to know what language are current favourites (Basic, C++ etc) and what people regard as the way forward with languages (personally, I think that C# sucks - but I also think I'm in a minority).

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by John E
And Solarflare - I'll start you off with the obvious ones:-

Basic (do we really need to specifiy which type??), Assembler (ditto), C, Pascal, Fortran, Cobol, Logo, Lisp, Forth, Rexx, Modula-2, Modula-3, Perl.
First of all, yes, we do need to distinguish between Basics. There are two main types: one where you write a program visually and one where you don't. It's important because it shows the user's original approach to programming, which is the goal of the question.

Second, I've never heard of Modula-2 and Modula-3, and judging by the names, they sound similar. Would it be acceptable to group them into just Modula, or Modula-x?

P.S. It would also be useful to know what language are current favourites (Basic, C++ etc) and what people regard as the way forward with languages (personally, I think that C# sucks - but I also think I'm in a minority).
Sounds like you have an idea for a thread of your own.

[Yves M]

Well, here is a short list:

Visual Basic
non visual Basic
C
C++
C#
Java
Assembler (any flavor)
HEX machine code (includes punch-cards)
perl
Prolog
lisp
functional language (Haskell, Miranda etc.)
Pascal
Delphi
Modula-2
Fortran
Cobol

But there is an abundance of "teaching languages" like for example Turing (OOT) etc.

[John E]

Originally posted by solarflare
First of all, yes, we do need to distinguish between Basics. There are two main types: one where you write a program visually and one where you don't. Good point...

Second, I've never heard of Modula-2 and Modula-3. Would it be acceptable to group them into just Modula, or Modula-x? Whoa, now you've really got me stumped! ;) I have to admit I've only ever heard of these languages but I don't really know anything about them - I've a vague feeling they were mainly used on mainframe machines (or possibly DEC / Alpha etc) from a long time ago. Another one which springs to mind from that kind of period would be Ada - but you might have to be a bit long in the tooth to remember Ada!

Sounds like you have an idea for a thread of your own. I'll see how yours goes first!! ;)

[s. roelants]

if i'm not mistaking the modula , modula-2 ... languages where invented for educational purposes by mister Wirth (inventor of Pascal) because he found that pascal had evolved to much and wasn't pure enough anymore for being an educational / teaching language.

Seems ada is still in use mostly in military and aircraft type environments (claims to have a very high degree of stability). I came across it recently in connection with some flight traffic control systems.

[SolarFlare]

I like Yves' list. But I can only make a poll with 10 options! :( Yves, can you use your "Super Moderator" status to add the rest? Thanks!

(I still need Prolog, lisp, functional language (Haskell, Miranda etc.), Pascal, Delphi, Modula-2, Fortran, Cobol, teaching language, Other)

For Yves and other future posters, the thread is located here (http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=217680)!

[Yves M]

ok, I'll do that.

[Yves M]

And there she goes :)

[SolarFlare]

Thanks for using your powers for good and not evil. :)

[Yves : I wouldn't dare to use my powers for anything evil ;) ]

[souldog]

It seems that you guys are missing the point. The catagories you are listing really have to do with knowledge of a tool. What facts does one know about C++ and MFC etc.. The real breakdown comes in the kind of mind the programmer has. Either the programmer has a mathematical mind or he does not. The real
categories are:
1. You are a mathematician who programs

2. You are a programmer who is not a mathematician

The first category will seem incompetant to the second at first
just based on their experience (Knowledge of the tool), but will
be able to propress quickly.
People in the second category will always be hacks.
For most people the formal training that would be most important is in mathematical logic.

[Yves M]

Originally posted by souldog
1. You are a mathematician who programs

2. You are a programmer who is not a mathematician

I posted that question a while ago (http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=212785) so answer there if you want to :)

[SolarFlare]

As long as your changing it around, why not ask people what their strongpoints are? i.e. it could be mathematics (good at manipulating variables), logic (figuring out the best or most effiecient way to write code), syntax and libraries (some people are just good because they remember exactly what all the libraries do and how to do it without hesitation), interface (make a simple program and make it look real nice with lots of interesting accessories), speed (can sit down and type a program without stopping to think), novelty (will use some technique in their program, such as recursion, even if it is not necessary but just because it's cool), or well-rounded (not exceedingly good at any of the above, but no serious weaknesses).

I would put myself in "mathematics" and "logic" first. I also have a bit of "interface" and "speed" too.

[Yves M]

Yes, well, we are not really trying to hire everybody here on Codeguru, are we ? :p No seriously this begins to sound like interview questions. ;)

Just for the record, if there is a rating from 1 to 10 (best), I would answer in the personality profile:
mathematics : 9
logic : 9
syntax and libraries : 4 (they are just a tool and change all the time)
interface : 1 (but improving :p)
speed : 5 (depends)
well-rounded : I'm not fat !

[John E]

Oh souldog, what a can of worms you've opened - I think you could be in deep water here, mate!

What you're saying is like saying "if it's got four legs and it isn't a dog, then it must be a horse". My table's got four legs but it isn't either!

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by Yves M
interface : 1 (but improving :p)
Your code conversion program had a nice interface (in my opinion).

[Yves M]

Originally posted by solarflare

Your code conversion program had a nice interface (in my opinion).
That's why I allow myself the remark "improving" ;) There is this joke in my company that you can tell my programs just by looking at the "weird" UI :p

[souldog]

John E. The four legs analogy is not relevant. I am asserting an
exclusive or. If you would not classify yourself under group 1 then you fall under group 2. In my original reply I stated the conclusion you can draw from being in group 2. With respect to your original question, I am completely self-taught and a beginner. I am writing, in C++, my first program every, so to you I deserve only pity and derision.

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by souldog
John E. The four legs analogy is not relevant. I am asserting an
exclusive or. If you would not classify yourself under group 1 then you fall under group 2. In my original reply I stated the conclusion you can draw from being in group 2. With respect to your original question, I am completely self-taught and a beginner. I am writing, in C++, my first program every, so to you I deserve only pity and derision.
Whoa, there, you two! Let's break this up before it goes any farther, such as posting with anger-caused typos, or spitting on your monitors! Don't overanalyze it! Codeguru is not for this kind of argument! If you want to argue, make your own darnn website!

[Xeon]

From John Elegant:

Hey Xeon,
How you know Irona20 is a ****??
It's no wonder you're a Guru!!!


Don't be silly, John! We all know Irona is a ****!
But let's stop chatting about her, cos' she told me and Simon666 once that she has a boyfriend and she's kinda angry about us making a fuss outta her. :):)

Yves M:

Yes, well, we are not really trying to hire everybody here on Codeguru, are we ? No seriously this begins to sound like interview questions

THIS IS YOUR CHANCE, Yves!!!!!!!!
What in the universe art thou waitin' for??!! For the sky to fall? Of course not!

This is a darn golden opportunity.......in other words,.......it's your very own CD promotion! Remember, Yves? Your CD + album called "Coding in the Night" is out, and these reporters-in-disguise are taking the chance to help you promote your work!
And I even told 'em hard and strong that I'm your manager man!

Isn't this kinda cool??!! :):):D:D:D:D

[John E]

Originally posted by Xeon
From John Elegant:
How you know Irona20 is a ****??

Don't be silly, John! We all know Irona is a ****!
But let's stop chatting about her, cos' she told me and Simon666 once that she has a boyfriend. :):)Hey Xeon,

You must be WAY behind the times in Singapore. Over here in England I know someone who's got a boyfriend and he's NOT a **** ! :eek:

Maybe Irona had you fooled all this time. ;) ;)

PS Thanx for not calling me John Effluent... :D :D

[John E]

Originally posted by souldog
If you would not classify yourself under group 1 then you fall under group 2.

I am writing, in C++, my first program every, so to you I deserve only pity and derision. Well souldog, in a strange way I think you’re right – but for the wrong reasons…. Am I right in assuming that you’ve classified my groups in reverse order, with 1 being the lowest and 5 the highest?

If so, and you’re just starting out writing your first program, then you cannot possibly be in Group 2. Group 2 (i.e. my Group 4) is for people who think they are a genius when in fact, they’re just full of misconceived ideas. So, as an absolute beginner, you’d be in Group 1 - and therefore inextricably doomed to placing all your posts in completely the wrong forum. Sadly, this is the way of things...

However, you’ve correctly highlighted a crucial flaw with the grading system. If you never get any formal training, then there’s no way of progressing out of Group 1 without either going straight to Group 5 or becoming a total pain in the butt to everyone. Logically, Captain, this means that there must be a group missing somewhere!

Now if only I could find it….

[SolarFlare]

Next interview question: relate Rice Crispies to The Bombing of Hiroshima (This is a real question that my friend once got for a teaching interview).
:D

[irona20]

Originally posted by John E
Hey Xeon,

You must be WAY behind the times in Singapore. Over here in England I know someone who's got a boyfriend and he's NOT a **** ! :eek:

Maybe Irona had you fooled all this time. ;) ;)

PS Thanx for not calling me John Effluent... :D :D

:mad: Chatting about me again? I'm going to collect an exclusive about if I'm a girl or a boy :) :D :D

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by irona20
:mad: Chatting about me again? I'm going to collect an exclusive about if I'm a girl or a boy :) :D :D
Hey, now that it's been brought to my attention, we don't really know if Xeon is a guy or ****. We haven't seen his picture, u know, and there are some gurls who like chicken chops and other gurlz.

[Xeon]

From John E:

Hey Xeon,
You must be WAY behind the times in Singapore. Over here in England I know someone who's got a boyfriend and he's NOT a **** !
Maybe Irona had you fooled all this time.


Yes, yes. In short, these are gays. Let's be open, nothing to hide. :cool:

Disclaimer : It is totally ok to use these terms, cos' they're officially scientific words found in Dictionary.com. Need I say more?
If you disagree, take it out on chicken chops.

From Irona:

Chatting about me again? I'm going to collect an exclusive about if I'm a girl or a boy


Irona chicken chop(ICC)......if I were you, I would 'ave started a thread long ago clearing the air of my true gender! Aye~! :)

From Solar:

Hey, now that it's been brought to my attention, we don't really know if Xeon is a guy or ****. We haven't seen his picture, u know, and there are some gurls who like chicken chops and other gurlz.


Now! This is no forum for disgusting matters, Solar!
The truth is : I am a boy, not a ****!
I know you've dark fantasies about me being a **** cos' u want a cute ****, but please. I'm not interested in males, k???!!!

I love chicken chops and gurls and that AMD ad, but if you keep flooding my mail box with 238++ e-mails harassing me every day, I'm gonna take legal actions against you, k???!! :D:D:D:D:D:D

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by Xeon
Now! This is no forum for disgusting matters, Solar!
The truth is : I am a boy, not a ****!
I know you've dark fantasies about me being a **** cos' u want a cute ****, but please. I'm not interested in males, k???!!!

Who told you!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?;):eek:

I love chicken chops and gurls and that AMD ad, but if you keep flooding my mail box with 238++ e-mails harassing me every day, I'm gonna take legal actions against you, k???!! :D:D:D:D:D:D
I don't think you could take legal actions against me, because I am just an entity, just an identity on codeguru. You would have no way of figuring out that I am your next-door neighbor. Aw crap, I said the soft part loud and the loud part soft. Besides, I couldn't send you 238 emails cuz I don't know ur email address.

[Goodz13]

I'd like to think of myself as a Guru, but I am a in the Intermediaries group. I was formally trained in a VB, C, C++, and Java.

At one time, Java was my most hated language to work with. Basically because the cource I took was seporated into Modules, you study one language at a time. Our class was the first class that was ever offered Java, but because of time constraints, there was only 4 weeks of it. So they took a cource that should have been a 3 month course (like the other 3) and crammed it into 4 weeks.

Through experience, I've grown to like Java the most. I don't work much in VB or C/C++ since the cource. All Java and a different form of Basic.

[Xeon]

From Solar:

I don't think you could take legal actions against me, because I am just an entity, just an identity on codeguru. You would have no way of figuring out that I am your next-door neighbor. Aw crap, I said the soft part loud and the loud part soft. Besides, I couldn't send you 238 emails cuz I don't know ur email address.

Yes, u do! My Norton Internet Security software warned me yesterday that someone with the ID of Solar_Hacker_Flare_2003 attempted to hack into my system. I contacted the FBI, and they say they're looking for this same guy. If you don't want me to turn you in, it all depends on how you treat me.

For a start, how about cocktail jellies and free darn cute and pretty GURLS delivered to my doorstep for me to devour? Thank you.

From Goodz13:

At one time, Java was my most hated language to work with. Basically because the cource I took was seporated into Modules, you study one language at a time. Our class was the first class that was ever offered Java, but because of time constraints, there was only 4 weeks of it. So they took a cource that should have been a 3 month course (like the other 3) and crammed it into 4 weeks.
Through experience, I've grown to like Java the most. I don't work much in VB or C/C++ since the cource. All Java and a different form of Basic.


Now, Goodz.....if u and me were living together on the same street, we must have been fighting each other to the death.
Why?

Cos' I hate Java more than you love it! I shall seek to tarnish it's reputation and never rest until I pray for it's fall.
I hope Sun Microsystems will be bought over and destroyed by Microsoft one day, so that the Java programming language and it's gang will suffer great setbacks.

Now, first of all, compared to C++, Java seems to be darn artificial.
The worse part about Java is the AWT library. The way you add those window listeners to the controls are totally crazy, unlike the natural way in the Win32 style.

Besides, Java is impractical. I mean, it is well-known for it's slow speed among other things.

More importantly, there's no one single programming language that can run on all systems. Java was designed to run on all platforms that support the JVM, but how fast are they? Aye~!

Goodz, pray tell me how I can persuade you to code in C++ or some true programming languages other than Java?
Even Visual Basic is better than Java, pal.

Really, James Gosling should have eaten more chicken chops while inventing Java so that he can create a more original language, and not some look-alike. :cool:

[Platinum Plus]

Cos' I hate Java more than you love it! What about the M$ flavor J++. It just gots to have the plus to it for you to do it :D:D

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by Platinum Plus
What about the M$ flavor J++. It just gots to have the plus to it for you to do it :D:D
Like Plat++.

[sma]

This post and its associated replies all seem to miss the entire point of this and the many other forums available today. Does it really matter how people are categorised in terms of programming knowledge and experience?


Programming as a hobby/career or general pastime relies on the distribution of information to facilitate the improvement of a person's abilities. You can't learn to ride a bike without the initial assistance of some one else. To develop an understanding within this field is no different. The key to the whole programming discipline is education via a formal institutes, the passing of ideas or simply trial and error.

If questions aren't asked the answer will never be found and the silliest question is one that is not asked.

sma.

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by sma
Does it really matter how people are categorised in terms of programming knowledge and experience?

This thread doesn't have to do with knowledge and experience. The title is really just a facade to hide an informal, nonsensical chat. We all respect each other here regardless of experience and knowledge (and that means I still have some dignity ;)).

[John E]

Originally posted by solarflare

This thread .... is really just a facade to hide an informal, nonsensical chat. We all respect each other here regardless of experience and knowledge (and that means I still have some dignity ;)). As the person who started off this thread I have to admit that I've been highly amused at the different directions it went in. Rice crispies, Hiroshima, Chicken chops and is Xeon a secret ****? Wow! I was amazed. I was also amazed that no-one bothered to dream up new categories - I was expecting a few wacky ones - but, more than that, no-one picked up on the fact that, before learning to program, my big ambition was to become - yes, a concert pianist!! (literally)... (if you don't understand that, read the first post).

The long and arduous training taught me to detest concert pianists. I've had many different jobs since then - but I discovered that there are "concert pianists" in every profession - and they're equally detestable in all walks of life! :)

Before posting here, I hadn't really looked at the General Discussion forum. But now I think it's easily the best forum on CodeGuru. Why? Because, it's totally lacking in the intensity and *****iness of some of the other forums. As Solarflare says, people join in with completely trivial discussions and freely take the mickey out of each other without anyone getting upset or taking it all too seriously. General Discussions is now my first port of call when I visit CodeGuru!

I'm thinking of starting a new thread, now:- "How good are you in bed?" :rolleyes:

Only joking! I dread to think where that thread would end up!!...;)

[John E]

P.S. How about a poll on what kind of programs we all write? (you know the sort of thing - database / finance / mulimedia / games etc). Has that ever been done? If not, can anyone suggest some more categories?

[souldog]

Hi John, sorry about the misunderstanding earlier in this thread.
I am often sarcastic for the fun of it. This is a good idea for a topic. I am writing a program which is an interface to a pc based servo controller. It controls testing equipment. What is a good name for this category? Engineering applications?
souldog

maybe data acquisition and control?

[John E]

Hey Souldog, I wasn't in the least bit upset. ;)

I guess the type of thing you're doing might be, say, "Process Control" - and maybe, as you say, we should have some categories to cover other science/engineering type apps called "Scientific/Data acquisition", "Communications" and maybe "Engineering / Industrial (other)" ??

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by John E
I'm thinking of starting a new thread, now:- "How good are you in bed?" :rolleyes:

Only joking! I dread to think where that thread would end up!!...;)
There's only one way to find out.

Oh, and for the new thread, how bout "Hobo with a laptop who doesn't really know how to program but just likes the site (www.codeguru.com)"

[kogg]

I know this is an oldish post, but I had to speak out for the self taught.

Catagory 4 for me at least is the most interesting group of all. When you understand that all forms of programming at some time in the past did not exist, computers and programming came about by someone tinkering and mulling over some, then, obscure idea(s).

Phd's are mostly people who don't really know what it is they are investigating, ok they have a standard knowledge under their belt to help them, but if they did know then what would be the point of the study. Programming as not always been with us and a uneversity degree only serves to educate a group of people to a given standard or level. If you want to go behond that standard then your on your own, like the Phd or the self taught who rely on their own thoughts, not other peoples.

Self taught people may be more difficult because they have to have the self confidence and self belief in what they are doing, but it is with this goup of programmer that barriers are pushed forward and new technologies are descovered.

[LicuPliciu]

Since everybody wants to be in the 3rd category, I would put myself in the 5th category :D. I guess that no matter how much code of my own I wrote (and I did) or would write, there is nothing like a good old "copy - paste - it works" operation. Unfortunately this kind of code is harder to find nowadays (especially the "it works" part). Lately I only did operations like that from my own (older) code :mad:

[SolarFlare]

Yeah, copy-paste-compile is a classic strategy, but it makes you weak.

[Yves M]

Originally posted by solarflare
Yeah, copy-paste-compile is a classic strategy, but it makes you weak.
Why ? I have broken a few Ctrl keys on keyboards because of my extensive use of Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V ;)

[SolarFlare]

If you have repetitive code, then by all means break that control button (so to speak). But what I mean is if you've had some elaborate, complex problem that you solved in the past, it's different. If you copy and paste it and know that it works without knowing why, then you have a big problem. If you do this, you should at least know why it works and you'll be okay.

[Xeon]

From Solar:

If you have repetitive code, then by all means break that control button (so to speak). But what I mean is if you've had some elaborate, complex problem that you solved in the past, it's different. If you copy and paste it and know that it works without knowing why, then you have a big problem. If you do this, you should at least know why it works and you'll be okay.


Don't gimme that crap, sonny! And what the heck!!!! :cool:

In an ideal world, of course, Copy-Paste-Compile is not healty, cos' as the experts says, everything should be re-usable and generalized, so that u can re-use and re-use them again and again till the skies break without any problem.

But this is the REAL world. Nothing in the world......no program can be 100% objected-oriented, regardless of how much we want them to. It's impossible.

In an ideal world, gurls should be slim, tall, smart, with smooth hair and everything and nice female features.(u folks know what I mean)
But the idea is the same : it's impossible.

So, stop giving us these kinda buster-seminars and trying to teach us how to cook our shoes and slice our jellies, k??!!!
I wouldn't do that if I were you!

And now, it's time to take out my shotguns and........BA-BA-BA-BA-BA-BA-BA-BA!!!!!!!! :):D:):D:):D

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by Xeon
And now, it's time to take out my shotguns and........BA-BA-BA-BA-BA-BA-BA-BA!!!!!!!! :):D:):D:):D
Xeon? ....Xeon??? .......... XEON!!!!!! Are you there buddy?? Did they get you first? If he's gone, is it good or bad?

I think what he was trying to say before he blasted one of his heads off is that in theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.

[Yves M]

Well even if you have a nice class called CMyarrayIsIndexInAnotherStrcutureForExampleAnArrray it's much faster to use copy and paste than actually write out the name in fulll ;)

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by Yves M
Well even if you have a nice class called CMyarrayIsIndexInAnotherStrcutureForExampleAnArrray it's much faster to use copy and paste than actually write out the name in fulll ;)
I only use "int" in my progs. ;)

[Yves M]

Originally posted by solarflare
I think what he was trying to say before he blasted one of his heads off is that in theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.
In pratice you can and actuallly would without doubt use constrcuts and strurtures that would not make sense or not be efficient under the C++ standard, but this doesn't mean that you should have this as a part of your first "ideas" about the program. First think about how you do stuff then think about breaking the rules ;)

[Yves M]

Originally posted by solarflare

I only use "int" in my progs. ;)
Is it a problem ? I actually prefrer "long" :)

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by Yves M
Is it a problem ? I actually prefrer "long" :)
But long is such a big word, imagine how long it would take to type 5 or 6 times if you would use it that many times in your program. Int saves you 25% of your time!

[galathaea]

Why not just typedef long to mmm at the start of your programs? Then you not only have 3 letters to type like int, but they are the same 3 letters. You can do the typedef thing once and use that cool copy-paste thingy for all the rest of your projects. Then you only ever have to type that sinister long once...

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by galathaea
Why not just typedef long to mmm at the start of your programs? Then you not only have 3 letters to type like int, but they are the same 3 letters. You can do the typedef thing once and use that cool copy-paste thingy for all the rest of your projects. Then you only ever have to type that sinister long once...
Well if you're gonna cheat and do that, why choose a word like "mmm" which is so long? Why not "g"? It's right there in the middle of the keyboard too - you can't miss it!

[Simon666]

Originally posted by John E
4) The “Completely Self Taught”: For my money, these members are the second most dislikeable group and boy, these guys are hard work. In any professional discipline there is little to commend the “self proclaimed genius”. People who are self taught have usually picked up lots of bad habits and weird ideas. So much so, that their advice tends to confuse others instead of helping to clarify things. Almost to a man, these members have the congenital disability of being unable to read other people’s questions. They join in debates and offer advice which is way off beam and sometimes completely irrelevant. But one thing really puzzles me about this group. How come they are almost all “Elite” members? For me, the words “Elite Member” and “Bulls***ter” have come to be synonymous. Some Elite Members don’t fall into this category at all though – Sam Hobbs, for example (Sam, please change your Elite Member status for the sake of your reputation!)


Senior bullshitter and proud of it. I'm not a “self proclaimed genius”, I am a "genius" as such.

[CUT USUAL BULLSHIT]

As an engineer with virtually no programming background, I have learned everything I know now about programming myself. I do have a genuine interest in helping others however and I'll help whenever I can on a subject I might know a solution for. I have sometimes given a wrong advice but usually this was because the poster wasn't using plain English, didn't give enough information about the problem or just didn't clarify what the solution needed to be. This happens frequently.

Keep in mind that these kind of accidents happen as I'm keen on helping people and I'm also learning by reading and trying to solve other peoples questions. The more I learn, the less I make such mistakes and I'll pass these questions even if I know something about it. Sometimes people do wrong while trying to do good, but hey, that's life.

I've also come across real gurus who have come to give standard answers, refer to their site with examples without that giving an insight, or who have come to think their better than others. Ofcourse the latter is true, but with that way of thinking you'll not help other people get better. It is not always the people who are respected who are respectful. I've learned some things about that over here and as usual have facts to support that.

About the status thingy. I myself have always been disappointed about the rating disappearing on codeguru, you can find some posts from me about that. Some people do not like others who know less about programming to have a higher status. I personally would like to have posts in this forum not count in order to have a lower status because this can also raise expectations from the people whose posts you answer.

Before people start discussing this again, it also had its positive sides : some people just posted some things in order to get a rating or abused it. Some found it too competitive - although I think there was no real competition any more, some people are just too good - some think some competition is good.

Anyway, I just like to add one more thing about the “self proclaimed genius”. A big ego is not limited to this "group" and personally I think having a well developped ego is a good thing for a programmer.
Originally posted by John E
Before posting here, I hadn't really looked at the General Discussion forum. But now I think it's easily the best forum on CodeGuru. Why? Because, it's totally lacking in the intensity and *****iness of some of the other forums. As Solarflare says, people join in with completely trivial discussions and freely take the mickey out of each other without anyone getting upset or taking it all too seriously. General Discussions is now my first port of call when I visit CodeGuru!

Well, I'm glad you also think about it that way and find this forum very addictive. That is why I have so many posts on my counter, more than I would like however.

[/CUT USUAL BULLSHIT]

Originally posted by Xeon
But for me, I think I would fit into category 5, cos' although I post crap 85% of the time, no one can defy the fact that I post proper Visual C++ questions, and I even help out once in a blue moon.

Has the moon ever been blue? :D I'm probably not around for that long to have seen that one. :p
Originally posted by solarflare
Oh, and for the new thread, how bout "Hobo with a laptop who doesn't really know how to program but just likes the site (www.codeguru.com)"

Wow, you really are Xeon's neighbour. You seem to describe him accurately. Now I also understand your statement "Poor Xeon, always trying to make a cheap buck. Don't passerbys toss you enough quarters to get by each day?" (http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=625921#post625921) better.
Originally posted by solarflare
Xeon? ....Xeon??? .......... XEON!!!!!! Are you there buddy?? Did they get you first? If he's gone, is it good or bad?

As an abstract entity of pure evil, I do not know the concept of "good". Yet I have a feeling this would be the case. :D

[John E]

Oh boy, Simon - that was a seriously BIG rant ! :)

But you made a couple of points that I definitely agree with....
Originally posted by Simon666
I've also come across real gurus who have come to give standard answers, refer to their site with examples without that giving an insightI have to admit, I've noticed that creeping in as well. There's definitely a small but growing element of "I can't answer your question but why not go and admire my site," or "I don't know the answer but if you go here you can admire my snazzy code." At its current level, I can't say I'm really upset by the situation but this kind of thing can quickly become annoying if too many people start seeing the forums as a way of promoting themselves, rather than helping others. Good point.
Originally posted by Simon666
About the status thingy. I myself have always been disappointed about the rating disappearing on codeguru, you can find some posts from me about that. Some people do not like others who know less about programming to have a higher status.I think you made a good case both for and against the old rating system - and personally, I'm undecided. But what I DO find annoying is that membership status is apparently dependent on the sheer number of postings a person makes. Can any of the moderators confirm whether or not this is true? I've seen it stated by various people on many occasions but surely that can't be true??? If it IS true, it would certainly explain why so many of the bullshitters seem to advance very rapidly to the status of Elite Member.......

[Simon666]

Originally posted by John E
Oh boy, Simon - that was a seriously BIG rant ! :)

Yep, but I'm not the recordholder. That is Xeon with this post (http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=621902#post621902), conatining around 9400 characters. Maximum length is 10000.

Originally posted by John E
But what I DO find annoying is that membership status is apparently dependent on the sheer number of postings a person makes. Can any of the moderators confirm whether or not this is true? I've seen it stated by various people on many occasions but surely that can't be true??? If it IS true, it would certainly explain why so many of the bullshitters seem to advance very rapidly to the status of Elite Member.......
Yep, it IS true.

[galathaea]

Simon666, I agree with you completely!

First, egos. I don't know how anyone can learn anything until they have the ego big enough to assume its not out of their league. I have never seen it otherwise. Ego by itself is not a bad thing. It's often quite helpful.

However, snideness and holier-than-thou is a problem. I've seen some sobby hams around that can't seem to answer a question without pointing out how stupid the original poster is and how they really should read some beginners books and feel ashamed (FEEL ASHAMED NOW!!!). Oh, and visit their site while they're at it.

I still don't see why category 4 has all of this baggage attached to it, since it is so often the fountainhead of creativity in most fields... I always feel that those who are against the self-taught are the reason that school is less of a place of real knowledge anymore and more a "right-of-passage" that gets you from "scumbag lower class factory worker" to "good ol' boy (or girl)". I mean, really, I studied physics and philosophy in college, but all of my real knowledge in those fields came from what I read on my own. We never even once touched any of the quantum field theories, or theories of logic, or biophysical modelling, or modern epistemology as it relates to neuroscience... And I'm supposed to assume someone coming out of such a morass is better suited automatically??? That's the same problem kuphryn faced in a different thread...

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by Simon666
Wow, you really are Xeon's neighbour. You seem to describe him accurately. Now I also understand your statement "Poor Xeon, always trying to make a cheap buck. Don't passerbys toss you enough quarters to get by each day?" (http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=625921#post625921) better.

Ha! And you thought I was kidding.
[/quote]
As an abstract entity of pure evil, I do not know the concept of "good". Yet I have a feeling this would be the case. :D [/QUOTE]
While Simon may be pure evil, as I suspect this is the case, I am not. People just think I am because of my world domination schemes. But that doesn't make me evil.

In fact, since I'm such a non-evil guy, I'll even show you my picture. http://www.tigger1.demon.co.uk/depression/images/frowneyface.gif
Here it is. Now does that look so evil???

[Simon666]

Originally posted by galathaea
I've seen some sobby hams around that can't seem to answer a question without pointing out how stupid the original poster is and how they really should read some beginners books and feel ashamed (FEEL ASHAMED NOW!!!). Oh, and visit their site while they're at it.
Maybe next time I mention somebody I should disclose his/her identity as cleverly and cunningly as you in order to avoid moderator problems. :D ;) Now seriously, I was already thinking for a while that is becoming a problem. The latest ritual is asking people who have posted a small extra problem in a thread to ask it in a seperate thread. This is really annoying since if no answer would follow, this is probably what the thread submitter would do anyway. The least you can do, is help find an answer or say you don't know.
Originally posted by solarflare
In fact, since I'm such a non-evil guy, I'll even show you my picture.
Maybe all supermoderators should use this as their avatar to make people so scared they don't dare post anything bad. :cool:

[John E]

Why are these little pictures called "avatars" anyway? My (English) dictionary describes an avatar as some kind of Hindu deity. Does it mean something different across the pond?

[CBasicNet]

Avatar is something which is supposed to represent you, your ideas, thinking, personality and so on.;)

[John E]

Well, there's been an ongoing debate about whether Xeon is a boy or a girl. He claims to be a boy because (a) he likes chicken chops and (b) he fancies the girl in the AMD banner. However, he refuses to post a picture of himself.... :)

I pointed out that you don't have to be a boy to prefer "gurls" and someone else pointed out that he knows a **** who likes chicken chops. Then Irona came into the argument somewhere and Xeon got very embarrassed and.... oh, I don't know, it's all totally confusing..... :D

[galathaea]

Yes, avatars are actually incarnations of hindu deity. One deity may have many earthly incarnations, and thus many faces. So our avatar is our incarnation on CodeGuru (we may have several, as has been conjectured previously).

Oh, and sobby = of SOB, or liken unto the male offspring of a given female canine. And ham = pig, or one who exercises authority in an unkind way, as the race known as hippie has used in their tongue. I mean no other hidden meanings... really...

[Yves M]

Originally posted by Simon666
Maybe all supermoderators should use this as their avatar to make people so scared they don't dare post anything bad. :cool:
I think my current avatar fullfills this purpose fine enough, thank you ;)

[Simon666]

Originally posted by Yves M
I think my current avatar fullfills this purpose fine enough, thank you ;)
Gabriel then maybe. He is the only super moderator without avatar. :D ;)

[SolarFlare]

I think they use "avatar" because it sounds fancy.
Originally posted by John E
However, [Xeon] refuses to post a picture of himself.... :)

Xeon emailed me his picture... here it is (http://www.thepartysite.co.uk/images/A3163%20-%20Nerd%20glasses.jpg).
Originally posted by Yves M
I think my current avatar fullfills this purpose fine enough, thank you
No, it just makes you look stoned (not in a middle eastern kind of way). Especially when you see the whole picture (which you posted a while ago in some thread).

[John E]

Originally posted by solarflare
Xeon emailed me his picture... here it is (http://www.thepartysite.co.uk/images/A3163%20-%20Nerd%20glasses.jpg).Nice one! You'd better hope that Xeon hasn't got a good lawyer!!!

Where is he these days anyway? He seems very subdued at the moment....

[Simon666]

Originally posted by John E
Where is he these days anyway? He seems very subdued at the moment....
Yep, haven't seen him around for some time. The latest bit of personal info was probably this (http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=634898#post634898). Let me guess how the story went further :

Xeon's teacher was indeed shocked by him leaving school (it's probably fiction I'm writing, I would be happy). She has indeed brought this matter to the in-charge. This person was not that happy (subsidies per number of persons on school probably) and so he contacted Xeon's parents friday evening 29 november once to check how much of this is true and if so, why they didn't inform him.

So Xeon's parents know ofcourse of nothing which leads his parents, his teacher AND the in-charge to conclude that Xeon boy has been lying. Therefore they have forced him to say what he is up to which they didn't like or didn't care about any more after so many lies.

So they decided saturday afternoon that he would have to stay away from his computer starting from then and he would be under strict rule and close watch and would have to follow an attachment program chosen for him, not by him. This could explain why his last post is at saturday 30 november, 10.13 AM local time, as well as why a regular, nearly uninterrupted poster with an average of 4.35 posts a day stays away for two week days.

But that's just the horror scenario for Xeon. He might as well have found a **** who didn't like him to spend time on programming and demanded more time on her. This would be the horror scenario for Xeon's **** (come on, he is obsessed with gurls, he is mental).

[Gabriel Fleseriu]

Originally posted by Simon666
Gabriel then maybe. He is the only super moderator without avatar. :D ;)

Sonu also doesn't have an avatar. And I will refrain from using my picture as an avatar -- I don't want to scare people away :cool:

[Simon666]

Originally posted by Gabriel Fleseriu
Sonu also doesn't have an avatar. And I will refrain from using my picture as an avatar -- I don't want to scare people away :cool:

Did you just call this (http://www.tigger1.demon.co.uk/depression/images/frowneyface.gif) "my picture"? Are you and solar evil twin brothers? I forgot about Sonu. Haven't heard much from him lately.

[Gabriel Fleseriu]

Uh, that's not my picture -- but I don't look much better than that:cool:

[Simon666]

Originally posted by Gabriel Fleseriu
Uh, that's not my picture -- but I don't look much better than that:cool:
I know, tell me about it. I distictly remember you having the face of a rottweiler. :D :p

[John E]

Originally posted by Simon666

Yep, haven't seen [Xeon] around for some time. [ ... ] He might as well have found a **** who didn't like him to spend time on programming and demanded more time on her.Hmmm... that's interesting. Because Irona's been very quiet for a while too....

The plot thickens....:)

[Simon666]

By the way Gabriel,

When using the search feature on the forum I went back to the thread and searched for the picture of your dog. I couldn't help noticing that in this thread (http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=209570&perpage=40&highlight=dog&pagenumber=2) all quotes, image links and other references in the posts itself have lost their formatting. Is this an error that occurs when closing a thread or something else?

I tried to send this as a PM but they said your message box was full.

[Simon666]

Originally posted by John E
Hmmm... that's interesting. Because Irona's been very quiet for a while too....
She probably doesn't like such associations and I also always notice her every day at "Who's Online". Xeon however has been missing for a while (since 30/11) and his buddy Platinum Plus even longer (since 26/11).

Notice the closeness of these dates. Maybe I was right all along and they are the same person. :D Nah, just kidding, Xeon has consistently told he is from Singapore and I have Platinum's IP number and it checks out from South Africa.

[irona20]

Originally posted by John E
Hmmm... that's interesting. Because Irona's been very quiet for a while too....

The plot thickens....:)
:mad: :p :D I'm in darkness watching us :p

[irona20]

Originally posted by Simon666

She probably doesn't like such associations and I also always notice her every day at "Who's Online". Xeon however has been missing for a while (since 30/11) and his buddy Platinum Plus even longer (since 26/11).

Notice the closeness of these dates. Maybe I was right all along and they are the same person. :D Nah, just kidding, Xeon has consistently told he is from Singapore and I have Platinum's IP number and it checks out from South Africa.

Platinum probably will be missing until middle december
Xeon said to be very busy these days :D

[Simon666]

Originally posted by irona20
Platinum probably will be missing until middle december
Xeon said to be very busy these days :D
How do you have this information? Can you post the link to the post or is it by PM?

[John E]

Originally posted by irona20
Platinum probably will be missing until middle december
Xeon said to be very busy these days Originally posted by Simon666
How do you have this information?My theory is that Xeon and Platinum Plus have gone on holiday together and Irona is waiting to catch a plane to join them.

Where is it Irona? The Seychelles or just Disneyland?? :D :D

[irona20]

Originally posted by Simon666

How do you have this information? Can you post the link to the post or is it by PM?
:D :D... you are a bit busybody... it was a PM :)

[irona20]

Originally posted by John E
My theory is that Xeon and Platinum Plus have gone on holiday together and Irona is waiting to catch a plane to join them.

Where is it Irona? The Seychelles or just Disneyland?? :D :D

In darkness!!!... I have carried them to the dark side :p

[Simon666]

Originally posted by irona20
:D :D... you are a bit busybody... it was a PM :)
Two questions, of which one retorical (try to guess which one :D):

1. What is a busybody, is it somebody curious?
2. Why does he like you more than me since I didn't get any PM?

[irona20]

It is easy... the retorical one is the third question, of course!! :D :D, but I will answer two questions:

1.- Busybody == Simon666 :p
2.- Uhmm... I think it is obvious, I'm more satanic than you :D

[Simon666]

Originally posted by irona20
It is easy... the retorical one is the third question, of course!! :D :D, but I will answer two questions:

1.- Busybody == Simon666 :p
2.- Uhmm... I think it is obvious, I'm more satanic than you :D
OK, now about your satanicness:

1. You gave disinformation on the first question, now I know nothing more. This could indicate you're more satanic than me.
2. Xeon doesn't like Satanist so you're lying, however, the fact that you're lying could be considered satanic.

To clear things out, let's hold a little contest in Satanicness : what is the actual name of the Prince of Darkness?

[John E]

Originally posted by Simon666
let's hold a little contest in Satanicness : what is the actual name of the Prince of Darkness? She's going to answer Simon666 again...... :p :p

[irona20]

1. You gave disinformation on the first question, now I know nothing more. This could indicate you're more satanic than me.

No!!... don't you know yourself?


2. Xeon doesn't like Satanist so you're lying, however, the fact that you're lying could be considered satanic.


Yes, you are rigth... but I said I was carrying them (Xeon&Platinium) to the dark side :p


To clear things out, let's hold a little contest in Satanicness : what is the actual name of the Prince of Darkness?

I'm the queen... and I don't have children :p The king is... Kiss (obviously too) :D

[Gabriel Fleseriu]

Originally posted by Simon666
By the way Gabriel,

When using the search feature on the forum I went back to the thread and searched for the picture of your dog. I couldn't help noticing that in this thread (http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=209570&perpage=40&highlight=dog&pagenumber=2) all quotes, image links and other references in the posts itself have lost their formatting. Is this an error that occurs when closing a thread or something else?

I tried to send this as a PM but they said your message box was full.

That thread was closed in a time when CG was rearranging the forums. It landed in CodeGuru Community ( :confused: ) and is broken for some reason.

Thx for pointing out the mailbox problem. I will empty it.

[Gabriel Fleseriu]

Originally posted by Simon666

I know, tell me about it. I distictly remember you having the face of a rottweiler. :D :p

That was a dobermann...

[Simon666]

Originally posted by Gabriel Fleseriu
That was a dobermann...
Sorry, never been good at dog races. Actually, I'm a dog racist. :D But you probably figured that one out earlier.
Originally posted by Xeon
Yes, you are rigth... but I said I was carrying them (Xeon&Platinium) to the dark side
If carrying them to the dark side implies they post less you have done a good deed. What kind of satanist are you? Are you sick? :D And the Prince of Darkness is undoubtedly Ozzy Osbourne. :D How could you not know this? OK, one last chance, what is the actual name of the King of Darkness?

[Simon666]

Originally posted by irona20
:D :D... you are a bit busybody... it was a PM :)
Just what I thought. (http://www.hyperdic.net/dic/b/busybody.shtml) I would not like to know the information itself but whether I missed/overlooked some posts of Xeon. It's hard to find something you want to know back in Xeon's gigantic 3500+ post archive.

[irona20]

Originally posted by Simon666

Sorry, never been good at dog races. Actually, I'm a dog racist. :D But you probably figured that one out earlier.

If carrying them to the dark side implies they post less you have done a good deed. What kind of satanist are you? Are you sick? :D And the Prince of Darkness is undoubtedly Ozzy Osbourne. :D How could you not know this? OK, one last chance, what is the actual name of the King of Darkness?

Well, maybe I'm a "good" "satanic" :p

:D First Ozzy nowadays doesn't merit that title. Second, King of darkness, for me, is kiss, and I don't like that band, but it is undoubtly satanic... today... maybe Manson or Cradle of Filth?.... I hope NO!!! :p

[Simon666]

Originally posted by irona20
:D First Ozzy nowadays doesn't merit that title.
That may be true, but "officially" he still has that title. He was just hilarious at MTV : "Bubbles! Oh come on Sharon! I'm ****ing Ozzy Osbourne, I'm the Prince of ****ing Darkness. Evil! Evil! What's ****ing evil about a ****load of bubbles!?".
Originally posted by irona20
Second, King of darkness, for me, is kiss, and I don't like that band, but it is undoubtly satanic... today... maybe Manson or Cradle of Filth?.... I hope NO!!! :p
Wrong again. The full name of the King of Darkness is Simon De Meulemeester. :cool: But since you couldn't possible pronounce that correctly, you can call me Simon666. :D

[irona20]

Originally posted by Simon666

Wrong again. The full name of the King of Darkness is Simon De Meulemeester. :cool: But since you couldn't possible pronounce that correctly, you can call me Simon666. :D

:D :p... well if you are the King of Darkness, I want to see your certificate :D

[Simon666]

Originally posted by irona20
:D :p... well if you are the King of Darkness, I want to see your certificate :D
That would require something so sick i(t) would get banned off the site immediately. :eek: :eek: :eek:

[John E]

Originally posted by Simon666
Wrong again. The full name of the King of Darkness is Simon De MeulemeesterOriginally posted by irona20
:D :) ... well if you are the King of Darkness, I want to see your certificate :DI think you two need to get out a bit more....:)

[Simon666]

Originally posted by John E
I think you two need to get out a bit more....:)
Are you crazy? I'm the King of Darkness, not the King of Outside Ambient Lighting.

[irona20]

Originally posted by John E
I think you two need to get out a bit more....:)
My mother wouldn't say that :D

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by Simon666
Yep, haven't seen him around for some time. The latest bit of personal info was probably this (http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=634898#post634898). Let me guess how the story went further :
No need to guess, let me clue you in as to what happened next: I felt my spidey sense tingling, so I went and found Xeon. I rescued him just in the nick of time before his teacher and the in-charge turned into fiery beasts (one was a giant snake and the other was godzilla). He is now aboard my spacecraft until things cool down... there's no access to codeguru on my craft (I'm in an undisclosed location on Earth right now).
Originally posted by Simon666
Xeon however has been missing for a while (since 30/11) and his buddy Platinum Plus even longer (since 26/11).
Oh right... about him: P++ had to board my craft earlier in the week due to some technical difficulties... apparently his computer exploded and set fire to all the nuclear facilities in South Africa... when they find out who did it there's gonna be an angry mob, so I told him cuz he was so nice that he could take refuge in my craft. Also in the spacecraft is elvis, the real tony blair, and harry potter.
Originally posted by Simon666
Simon De Meulemeester
A bit off topic, I know, but is that your last name or your town?

[John E]

Originally posted by solarflare
I rescued [Xeon] just in the nick of time before his teacher and the in-charge turned into fiery beasts (one was a giant snake and the other was godzilla). He is now aboard my spacecraft until ... Oh no, not another one!! :(
Originally posted by solarflare
P++... his computer exploded and set fire to all the nuclear facilities in South Africa... when they find out who did it there's gonna be an angry mob, so I told him cuz he was so nice that he could take refuge in my craft. Also in the spacecraft is elvis, the real tony blair, and harry potter. A bit off topic, I know, but .....Off TOPIC??? :confused: I think you guys are off YOUR HEADS !!! ;) ;)

[Simon666]

Originally posted by solarflare
No need to guess, let me clue you in as to what happened next: I felt my spidey sense tingling, so I went and found Xeon. I rescued him just in the nick of time before his teacher and the in-charge turned into fiery beasts (one was a giant snake and the other was godzilla). He is now aboard my spacecraft until things cool down... there's no access to codeguru on my craft (I'm in an undisclosed location on Earth right now).

Your "spidey sense"? I guess this was you that Amn caught offguard. :D
Originally posted by solarflare
Also in the spacecraft is elvis, the real tony blair, and harry potter.I knew that thing on the news was not the real Tony Blair but a remotely (as remote as Washington) operated droid. :p About Harry Potter, please dump him in the vacuum of space, so his blood will start to boil after a while and hopefully his eyes will pop out just before he dies so he can witness his own death. By the way, what are you and all those young boys (apart from Blair) doing on that one ship? :D
Originally posted by solarflare
A bit off topic, I know, but is that your last name or your town?
That is my last name (literally translated : The Millmaster) and it is not a town I live in, but a small village of 8000 people located in the middle of nowhere. The middle of nowhere is called West-Vlaanderen, the village Houthulst (Literally translated : Woodholly). Hulshout (our own Hollywood :rolleyes: ) also exists in Belgium. But enough now of this useless info and mindless trivia. :rolleyes:

[Simon666]

Originally posted by John E
Oh no, not another one!! :(
Through careful text analysis I have come to the conclusion Xeon = solarflare. :p
Originally posted by John E
Off TOPIC??? :confused: I think you guys are off YOUR HEADS !!! ;) ;)
My head is still on, but what's inside noone knows :rolleyes: (or wants to know :D).

[CBasicNet]

From Simon


Simon De Meulemeester



That is my last name (literally translated : The Millmaster)

So 'Simon' in Belgain is still Simon.

What's the 'De'?

[CBasicNet]

Originally posted by John E
Oh no, not another one!! :(
Off TOPIC??? :confused: I think you guys are off YOUR HEADS !!! ;) ;)

Changing the forum name to "Off Topic Discussion" would be a nice idea.:D

[CBasicNet]

Originally posted by Simon666

Just what I thought. (http://www.hyperdic.net/dic/b/busybody.shtml) I would not like to know the information itself but whether I missed/overlooked some posts of Xeon. It's hard to find something you want to know back in Xeon's gigantic 3500+ post archive.

I too find it strange that a talkative boy like Xeon would be 'missing in action' for days. I wonder what happen to him.

Maybe it turns out in the end that he has to go for the attachment and now he is rushing his program like mad after he comes back from work everyday. Poor Xeon!:(

[John E]

Originally posted by CBasicNet
Changing the forum name to "Off Topic Discussion" would be a nice idea.:D If the moderators did their job properly, at least 50% of Codeguru posts would end up there!!! :D :D

[Gabriel Fleseriu]

Originally posted by John E
If the moderators did their job properly, at least 50% of Codeguru posts would end up there!!! :D :D

I can go hunt down your posts, if you want...:D :D

[John E]

Originally posted by Gabriel Fleseriu
I can go hunt down your posts, if you want...:D :D Touchè Gabriel...;)

[galathaea]

From my experience (well, if you call it that -- my bosses might call it work avoidance) the subjects of the threads in the Discussion forum are only useful for enticing particular people into it. After that, laissez faire...

Et apres moi, le deluge...

[Simon666]

Originally posted by galathaea
From my experience (well, if you call it that -- my bosses might call it work avoidance) the subjects of the threads in the Discussion forum are only useful for enticing particular people into it. After that, laissez faire...
Well duh... The titel itself says it : General Discussion. I don't see the words "programming", "VC", "VB", "Java" or anything else in it. :rolleyes: But I did something useful now again (my bosses however would call it work avoidance too :D) : I updated my color coding program. Quick, download it before I charge you all. :D :cool:

No seriously, I wonder who uses mine. I have seen anyone making use of mine. Cimperiali's is easy to recognize by the colored numbers :rolleyes:, Yves by the absence of color on preprocessor directives and else also if smilies occur in them. Anybody using my code? It has been downloaded around 50 times, I know that.

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by John E
Off TOPIC??? :confused: I think you guys are off YOUR HEADS !!! ;) ;)
You're changing the context of the statement. Reread the post. I said my question for Simon was off topic, not the explanation about Xeon.
Originally posted by Simon666
Your "spidey sense"? I guess this was you that Amn caught offguard.
I knew I shouldn't have let Platinum borrow my uniform.

I knew that thing on the news was not the real Tony Blair but a remotely (as remote as Washington) operated droid. About Harry Potter, please dump him in the vacuum of space, so his blood will start to boil after a while and hopefully his eyes will pop out just before he dies so he can witness his own death.
TB: Is it really that obvious?
HP: Why else would I have kidnapped him?
By the way, what are you and all those young boys (apart from Blair) doing on that one ship?
I told you about Xeon and Platinum Plus. Tony and Elvis are not children. That leaves one boy. The reason HP is here is so that I could witness his grisly grisly death. For the record, I did not read the books or see the movies.

Through careful text analysis I have come to the conclusion Xeon = solarflare.
A distinct possibility I hadn't thought of.
Originally posted by CBasicNet
What's the 'De'?

"De"=French for "from" or "of".

Changing the forum name to "Off Topic Discussion" would be a nice idea.

Then I would be too afraid to post here. "general discussion" sounds so dignified and makes it seem like I'm typing something important. My unimportant stuff is in this (http://www.codeguru.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=26) forum, most famously this (http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=218820) thread.
Originally posted by John E
Touchè Gabriel...
How do you make accents with this? And isn't the accent on the 'e' backwards?
Originally posted by galathaea
After that, laissez faire...
Et apres moi, le deluge...
Vous m'avez oublie. <---- see this is why I need accents!

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by Simon666
Anybody using my code?
Code? What is code? Does this site have programming stuff on it too?

[John E]

Originally posted by solarflare
Touchè Gabriel....
How do you make accents with this? And isn't the accent on the 'e' backwards?

Vous m'avez oublie. <---- see this is why I need accents! Should it be Touchè or Touché?? My French was never very good. I'll tell you how to do the accents when I get a definitive answer...

[John E]

Oh no, that won't work will it? Cos no-one will be able to give me the reply :D

Search your PC for a program called "Charmap.exe" If it doesn't exist you might have to install it from your Windows install CD. You'll get lots of lovely characters from languages and alphabets that are more interesting than English.

[Simon666]

Originally posted by solarflare
"De"=French for "from" or "of".

In my case it is Dutch for "the". English sucks, you write it "th" and most people pronounce it "d".

And for the record, it is touché. And look at http://www.asciitable.com and find out it is ASCII char 130. So hold down the ALT key and type 130.

[CBasicNet]

Wonder if Xeon will come back tomorrow. Tomorrow is a public holiday in Singapore.

btw did anyone here watched the the latest Amazing Race in Singapore? It is showing here in an hours' time.

[Simon666]

Originally posted by CBasicNet
Wonder if Xeon will come back tomorrow. Tomorrow is a public holiday in Singapore.

btw did anyone here watched the the latest Amazing Race in Singapore? It is showing here in an hours' time.
What is it?

[irona20]

It's a holiday tomorrow in Spain :D :D

And I won't come :p, Xeon... I don't know it :)

[Simon666]

First thanksgiving, now tomorrow for some obscure reason in Singapore and Spain. Crap, does anybody even work there? :rolleyes: :confused:

[CBasicNet]

Originally posted by Simon666

What is it?

It is a race show whereby the contestants are supposed to rush to the destination in the shortest time. I isn't too sure either so I can't say much; I never watch the series. But today I'm gonna to watch because it is Singapore!

I just hope the Singapore host won't be speaking too much Singlish in the show watched by millions in the world.:(

[Simon666]

Originally posted by CBasicNet
It is a race show whereby the contestants are supposed to rush to the destination in the shortest time.
Thanks CBasicNet, you just informed me of the meaning of the word "race", in a non-ethnic context. :rolleyes: But I think I already knew that one. :rolleyes: I meant, what kind of race : boat race, car race, F1 race, running, swimming, ... beer drinking, vomiting,...(That's what is usually comes down to for the people on the side line :D )

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by John E:
Should it be Touchè or Touché?? My French was never very good.
It's touché. (btw, no such program was found on my comp).
Originally posted by Irona:
It's a holiday tomorrow in Spain
What holiday?
Originally posted by Simon666:
I meant, what kind of race : boat race, car race, F1 race, running, swimming, ... beer drinking, vomiting,...
I've heard of this "amazing race", and I think the contestants are allowed to use whatever method they want to get there (hitchhike, fly, drive, run, crawl <---- no guarantees on winning with that last method).

[Simon666]

Originally posted by solarflare
I've heard of this "amazing race", and I think the contestants are allowed to use whatever method they want to get there (hitchhike, fly, drive, run, crawl <---- no guarantees on winning with that last method).
Except ofcourse when there is a circular sawblade along the way positioned at 1.65 m height. :D Xeon could run straight on ofcourse. :p Maybe he's in it : he could have been away to practice for this. :D

By the way : solar : up allready? We never see you at this hour? :confused:

[John E]

Originally posted by solarflare
It's touché. (btw, no such program was found on my comp).On my PC, it's under All Programs->Accessories->System Tools so it's definitely a standard Windows accessory - but I don't think it gets installed as part of the default installation. You have to specifically install it, i.e.

Control Panel->Add/Remove Programs->Add/Remove Windows Components.

[irona20]

Originally posted by solarflare

What holiday?



Constitution day :)

[Simon666]

Originally posted by irona20
Constitution day :)
Was Spain constituted in one day? :D OK, and what holiday is it in Singapore then?

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by Simon666
By the way : solar : up allready? We never see you at this hour? :confused:
"Up already" is one way to put it. I actually got up a couple hours later than usual, and if you go to the last post on this (http://codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=212267&perpage=10&pagenumber=26) thread, you'll find out why.

[Simon666]

Originally posted by solarflare
"Up already" is one way to put it. I actually got up a couple hours later than usual, and if you go to the last post on this (http://codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=212267&perpage=10&pagenumber=26) thread, you'll find out why.
Took a day off and went to play in the snow? ;) I guess it is also a way of using your free time.

[SolarFlare]

Simon, is your new avatar saying something about Irona?

[Simon666]

Originally posted by solarflare
Simon, is your new avatar saying something about Irona?
No, but it might indicate I do not think actual headbanging is healthy. And I find it way cooler too than the original. Do you think it is funny? I think it is hilarious. But then again, maybe I really am disturbed. What do you guys think of it?

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by Simon666:
No, but it might indicate I do not think actual headbanging is healthy. And I find it way cooler too than the original. Do you think it is funny? I think it is hilarious. But then again, maybe I really am disturbed. What do you guys think of it?
I don't really think it's too funny, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

[Simon666]

Oh, and by the way, it is also not against heavy metal as I am a fan of that. Just don't like headbanging. Looks cool though.