Xeon faces Destruction Himself : Need help from the Realm of Codegurus(serious)

[Xeon]

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. :)

Now, let this be the most solemn and serious post I ever made all my life in Codeguru.
Hmmm.......where and how do I start? Well, just to introduce the dilemma that I'm facing now.......it's with regard to my future and my entire life.

Ok, first......the story.

Start of story.

In my country(Singapore), there are 4 possible paths to choose
from after you graduated from high school.

1) College
2) Polytechnics
3) Find a job if you're a girl; serve the Army if you're a boy
4) Vocational school

I took the last route : to a vocational school, cos' my results really
sucks and that's why.
Now, we're suppose to have 2 years in vocational school, and an
extra third year for you if you fail and need to re-take any
subjects/examinations.
I'm currently at my 1.5th year and because I failed some
subjects, there'll be a third year for me.

Now, coming this December 2002, it is a must to work in a
company that the school sign you up for.
This is what they call "attachment programme" and it's to let you
have a taste of working in the real world, as a clerk or a filing
assistant or a database entry guy, or even a coffee-maker for the
company.
It all depends.

Now, the requirement is that we must fulfil 400 hours, and it's
from December 2002 to around February 2003, and we gotta
work from 8 AM to 5 PM.
Of course, we are paid around US$250 - US$340 monthly.

After we've completed these 400 hours on February 2003, we go
back to school as usual to study, to complete our 2(or 3) years of
study in the vocational school.

End of Story.

The problem, which is one of the very worst problems I've faced in my entire existence on earth is : I do not want to go for this attachment programme.

Why?

Because I have my own goals in life, and the most important of which is my prorgram. Yes. My own software program, as some of you may have already seen in the other thread.

The truth is : if I go for this attachment programme(remember : it's from 8 AM to 5 PM every day, including Saturdays), there will be no time or energy left for me to develop my program, especially if you take into account the transportation hours.
Approximately, it's around 6.20 AM to 7.00 PM daily, inclusive of the transportation hours.
Indeed, no time at all.

I am going to release my program soon, most likely on the very last few days of November 2002, or the first few days of December 2002.

Once my program is out, surely I have to maintain it and update the web site regularly, provide customer support, check out competitors, do research, fix bugs and update source code to incoporate new features and so on.

99.9 % of us here are all programmers of some sort, and we all know how much time fixing certain bugs alone can take, not to mention updating a web site or provide customer support etc.
It's impossible to do all these when you're working from 6.20 AM to 7.00 PM daily.

How about the time needed to spend with family and friends and such? It's atrocious.
Sure, some people can work from 9 PM onwards to 3 AM in the morning after they got back from work, but not me. I'm constrained by technical resources and health issues.

U might say, "What about doing this project of yours after the attachment programme? You're still young and you have lots of time."
Well, all these are complicated by yet another major issue : Conscription.
Yes......compulsory military service for 2.5 years in the army. Full time. That means, you can't program, can't see your family and friends and lots more.
By the time I come outta the army, the world would have changed totally. I would have to re-learn everything from scratch, and I would probably even forget the very very darn basics of C++ programming. What is an 'int'? A 'long'? Are they things we can eat?
Most of you here don't really need to serve the army, and even if you do, the choices are flexible. Like what Simon said before, in one country, you can declare that you are a pacifist and you get lighter jobs and such, if I am not wrong. Somewhere around that line.

My plans now are to :

-release the program
-post-pone(delay) the attachment programme to my third year
-once program is released, I'll be able to get support from my
currently unsupportive parents and friends, because once they
see some sort of results, they will come over to my side
-with support and agreements made easier, I will try to apply for
a new course in a private school etc to stall for time against
conscription
-save up money within these time and get a foreign visa and give
up my citizenship
-a sweet ending

Giving up my citizenship is a bit extreme, but at this stage, it's the one and only way to escape conscription. Especially in my country. Over here, as long as you're a native Singaporean holding a Singapore citizenship, you gotta do military service, regardless of whether you're currently a citizen of another country.

So, as you can see, if I were to go for this attachment programme, my plans would be seriously damaged and that will be the end of me. Thus, by all costs and by all means, I must avoid this attachment programme at all costs.

The main thorn which is making things difficult is the enviroment around here. I don't know about your country, but where I came from, the people are very hesistant in taking risks, and 90% just follow the career path that the government laid out for them.
90% and above of the folks here just wanna work for companies and you might be interested to find out that it's virtually impossible to find any kind of shareware/commercial programs developed by the local folks.

In such an enviroment whereby folks all around are sceptical of your goals in life and such, and an enviroment whereby people daren't take risks, it would be crazy to share your ideas and views with them, including my parents and friends and such. Of course, I did tried around 2 times before, but guess what? I got sneered and taunted at.
In such a case, do you think it's sensible and suitable to ask them for solutions?

The only solution to counter this is to show them what I've been doing these 2 years. Because these guys are overly practical, they will change their views and mindsets once they see the fact that the program is already there on the Web for download.

I know, and I understand and accept the fact that trying to become an independent software developer/vendor is not easy. And chances of profits are either low or very low.
But that is just what I have been seeking all my life. And I'm not going to give up my plans and dreams just because of an obstacle or two.
I have come a long way since I first started drafting out my plans and goals back in 1999, and if I'm thinking of giving them up now, that would be the biggest mistake I'm ever gonna make.

So, as you can see, I'm at the stage now whereby I have to avoid this attachment programme.
That is the reason why I made this post here. Tell the full story and get ideas.

It seems that one very possible way to escape this attachment programme is to inform the teacher in charge of my class, but what should I tell her? This is where I'm stuck.

Definetly, to be able to escape this darn thing altogether is not that easy. But once I have a valid reason for post-poning this attachment programme to the third year, everything would be somewhat easier. This is because once the program is out and these guys realise that I've at least accomplished something, no matter how small it is, they will give me support and agreements will be easier. This attachment programme must not hinder my plans.

So, back to the issue : what kind of reason should I tell my teacher so that she will allow me to post-pone(delay) this attachment programme to the third year?
Unless I'm wrong, this kind of cases whereby students delay the attachment programme to the third year is very very rare. If not, I'm the first case.

I can't tell her about my plans, though. Trust me : she'll regard it as maximum rubbish and naive ideas.
I can't seem to think of any ideas/good reasons at this moment in time, so I've seeked the help of fellow Codegurus here.

On the bright side :
Although what I'm seeking is powerfully valid reasons to give my teacher, all encourgaments or views are warmly welcome.

On the dark side:
All critics, taunts, jeers, sneers, curses, boos, morale-destroying words and voodoo magic against me are welcome either. I've been immune to them anyway.

It is evening, and the sun is setting in an hour's time or so. I've to go back to coding my program. Indeed, the pace has quicken.

Good evening and see you, fellow Codegurus.
Have a nice day and thank you so much for spending your precious time in reading this. :)
Xeon.

[Gabriel: edited the formattong so it fits the page width at 1024]

[Platinum Plus]

Hello Buddy

You basically want a plan to stall not stop this thing called conscription ?

[Simon666]

Yes this is serious stuff. But what can we do about it? Very little probably. What can you do about it? Probably a bit more. There are probably job offers for programmers in your country, but I guess they all ask for diplomas and experience both of which you don't have (a lot), due to the recent economic downfall. That is the case over here at least. You seem certainly very willing to persist your goal in life, which is something I appreciate. Therefore, I would like to know something : you said you go to a vocational school because your results "suck". You do not seem to be dumb or anything, just a bit - or a lot - crazy. So I wonder whether these results originate from you not being capable of achieving results or you being not willing to achieve results because you found things not interesting at school or not in the line of your expectations of what they should teach you.

I think that if you do have the abilities, you still have the option of college open and you should reconsider this. If the economic situation continues to be what it is, there will remain a surplus of just graduated programmers and these will always go ahead of you in sollicitations being more capable or not, just because they have a diploma. That is sad, but the way it usually works. So if you do have the abilities, I would try college. In my country you can get a grant if your parents have not enough income or if you don't own enough yourself, e.g. after your parents have thrown you out after a quarrel, so if you are willing to take some jobs after college you can always graduate if you persist.

Going to college probably also relieves you of your military duties and if you want to be a programmer and you have enough motivation, interest in what you are learning and persistance, I'm sure you can graduate that way, though it will be hard. But that seems to be the case for you any path you take in life. If you are just 18, it is not too late to change yet. Well, it never is too late to change, but it becomes harder with the years. If you have a diploma, things would look much better for you on the job market, in your country and in others too. Because getting foreign visa alone will not get you the job you want, it is not that easy. Well, if you go to the USA maybe, but not in Europe for sure.

I think that if you do not have the abilities, you can also try to work as an independant programmer on contract base, in that case you will probably not be confronted with requests for diplomas, but if you have some credibility - your program - this may just work to get some jobs which will be more and more complicated as you learn more, but being independant also brings great risks of not finding contracts, so money, for some, sometimes long periods.

Anyway, any path you take, I wish you good luck.

[Gabriel Fleseriu]

Yes indeed, this is serious.

I have to agree with Simon: nowdays you need a diploma if you want to have a chance. When you apply for a job, you may be smarter and better than your competitors, but you won't get a chance to prove it. Your CV will be ruled out simply because the others have a diploma and you don't. It is sad, but true.

Don't be deceived by the fact that some people managed to become rich and famous without having any diploma (like a Bill Gates or a John Carmack). First of all these are exceptions and second, most of them dropped their school because they already had a successful bussines.

My advice is: do what it takes and try going to college. And be prepared to work hard and to have to do a lot of things that you don't like.

I wish you good luck!

[Xeon]

From Platinum Plus:

You basically want a plan to stall not stop this thing called conscription ?

No, not really.......Platinum Plus. I wanna escape conscription altogether.

To Elrond:

I'm sorry, Elrond. But.......I'm just too sorry.

From Simon:

Yes this is serious stuff. But what can we do about it? Very little probably. What can you do about it? Probably a bit more. There are probably job offers for programmers in your country, but I guess they all ask for diplomas and experience both of which you don't have (a lot), due to the recent economic downfall.


True.


You seem certainly very willing to persist your goal in life, which is something I appreciate.


Thank you, Simon. Since the very first day I started out, I have been telling myself every day that regardless of what happens to me, I'll never give up, even if I lost 2 arms and 2 legs. U can still type with a pointer attached to your head. It has been done before, and nothing is impossible if you really wanna try.


Therefore, I would like to know something : you said you go to a vocational school because your results "suck". You do not seem to be dumb or anything, just a bit - or a lot - crazy. So I wonder whether these results originate from you not being capable of achieving results or you being not willing to achieve results because you found things not interesting at school or not in the line of your expectations of what they should teach you.


Well, I got myself into a vocational school cos' it's part of my plans.
U see, the homework in college is crazy, and I would never ever had the time to program or anything.
Polytechnics are better, but they have zillions of projects within 3 years, and that's really unsuitable for my plans.
The work load in Vocational schools are much lighter, giving me more time to code and such.

Thus, to enter a vocational school, I delibrately refuse to study the subjects taught at school : Chemistry, Physics, Mathematics and such. I spent all my time on code instead. Sure, I know I'll never be as great as Gabriel and the coders here, but at least I'm doing something I like.

Delibrately failing your subjects is a crazy decision which is out of this world, and would be condemned to the core by everyone. This is taking a great risk, which is like trying to brush the teeth of a lion which has not eaten for 5 days. If I fail, my future would be ruined. But respectable success does not come without risks.

But the happy thing, though....is not I have not regretted an inch of the fact that I delibrately failed my subjects in order to proceed with my plans.


I think that if you do have the abilities, you still have the option of college open and you should reconsider this. If the economic situation continues to be what it is, there will remain a surplus of just graduated programmers and these will always go ahead of you in sollicitations being more capable or not, just because they have a diploma. That is sad, but the way it usually works. So if you do have the abilities, I would try college.


College here is quite different from Belgium and other countries. In colleges here, you do only the subjects plus a couple others boring ones, just like in high school, only much tougher. They don't teach you practical things like engineering or programming in college, just subjects like advanced chemistry, advanced physics, advanced biology, advanced mathematics and C Mathematics and more.
I had rather die than to suffer that kind of fate, because I have always been more interested in software development and e-commerce stuff, especially online marketing. That's why.


Because getting foreign visa alone will not get you the job you want, it is not that easy. Well, if you go to the USA maybe, but not in Europe for sure.

Well, immigration matters and issues will be somewhat more secure and easily understandable and easier if you have an immigration lawyer. That's because an immigration lawyer can provide tips on how to get around certain issues and such.
The thing is : I'll take up several jobs if I have to just to get me an immigration lawyer when it's time to face Conscription.


I think that if you do not have the abilities, you can also try to work as an independant programmer on contract base, in that case you will probably not be confronted with requests for diplomas, but if you have some credibility - your program - this may just work to get some jobs which will be more and more complicated as you learn more, but being independant also brings great risks of not finding contracts, so money, for some, sometimes long periods.

Well, Simon...maybe you got the wrong idea. When I say indepenent software developer/vendor(ISD/ISV), I don't mean freelance programming, a job whereby programmers look for contracts, finish them and get paid etc.

ISDs/ISVs tend to be very small to medium size software companies, ranging from a one man team to a group of over 25++ employees.
They usually sell their software over the Internet, and have small offices and such.

That's what I meant.

I guess what I gotta do now is to find out clearly the situation by asking the guys up there in my vocational school, and apply programming strategies to analyse the problem and break it down into parts and solve it part by part.

Now, you've been a good pal in my darkest hour, Simon.
I really appreciate it. Thank you. :)

To Gabriel:
And Gabriel......thank you so much for your words. But no.....I guess I will go and think of reasons to counter this. Even if I fail in the end, I will still be a happy man, because at least I did try to achieve what I really seek.

I don't wanna look back when I'm an old man and question myself, "Oh dear......what have I done all these years? If only I had tried to realise my goals when I still have lots of energy when I'm young...."

As for Bill Gates and folks like Michael Dell and such.....no no.....I never wanted to be like them. They have too much money that they can't even think how to spend it. Over billions of dollars these guys have.....aye.
I just wanna be contented with my lust for my dreams, not to get rich. Getting rich/famous(or both) and achieving your dreams are two different matters. A dream and a goal is still a dream and a goal regardless of how small, tiny, naive or insignificant they are.

Fighting on......fighting strong! See you and take care, Gabriel! :)

[Platinum Plus]

Xeon says Now, you've been a good pal in my darkest hour, Simon. Simon never ceases to amaze me ;)

Xeon, is there a jail term or something if you defy conscription :(

[Xeon]

See my PM, Platinum Plus.

[Simon666]

Originally posted by Xeon
Thus, to enter a vocational school, I delibrately refuse to study the subjects taught at school : Chemistry, Physics, Mathematics and such. I spent all my time on code instead. Sure, I know I'll never be as great as Gabriel and the coders here, but at least I'm doing something I like.

Delibrately failing your subjects is a crazy decision which is out of this world, and would be condemned to the core by everyone. This is taking a great risk, which is like trying to brush the teeth of a lion which has not eaten for 5 days. If I fail, my future would be ruined. But respectable success does not come without risks.

It seems to me you've brought doom upon yourself a bit. My brother is just graduated as programmer and has never made something like a real VC++ program, but in little time he would be capable because he has a good background and so on. He has however learned a lot about data bases, Java, and various other stuff. I also have the impression you have never informed yourself properly on what college education for programmer actually means and what courses you would get.

I also am disappointed you never considered going to college because of advanced physics and math and such. Many people do not like math, which I can perfectly understand, but it can be very useful for solving problems. Another thing : if you continue going around the things you do not like in your life, such as studying and doing homework, you are probably not going to get far or in deeper trouble than you already are some point in the future. You seem to have the quality that you like to take risks in life unlike many other people in your country, but you also seem to have the nasty habit of trying not to face potential problems ahead of you. If you decide to go your own way in life, that is nevertheless exactly what you will have to do.

I hope you can change that attitude a bit the future.

[Xeon]

Thank you for your speech, Simon. :)
But I think we had better stop this thread.

And yes. I'm going to bring doom upon myself if I have to achieve my dreams, and I don't mind dying. Darn.

Now, let's forget about all these, shall we? Initially, I posted this thread here cos' I wanted to hear suggestions on what kinda reasons to give my teacher to postpone the attachment programme, but it's getting more and more off-topic.

Nevertheless, thank you a lot for your views and kind words, guys.
Thanks. :)

Good night,
Xeon.

[Elrond]

Basically, the attachment program is only for a short time and should not be a real problem. The only real problem is the conscription.

Is there anyway you can avoid the conscription: bad health, having secured a job, having a familly (wife and kids), having a high level of studies ...?

If there's not, just move to another country or get over it and go to your two years of constription as sonn as possible so you will still be young enough afterward to continue your studies or do whatever else you plan.

If there are ways, give us a list of them and we may try to help you find a solution.

Last thing, is conscription being a soldier, or can it be something else? When we had that in France there was the possibility to perform more scientific jobs, even within the army, and I got a coupla friends who managed to be programmers there.

[Xeon]

Hi there Elrond! Nice to see a warm message from you in the morning.

Is there anyway you can avoid the conscription: bad health, having secured a job, having a familly (wife and kids), having a high level of studies ...?


Yes, there is : either be mentally ill(a lunatic), have a very very low IQ or be physically disabled. But of course, you'll need to pass through extreme proving by the doctors before you're told you're free from conscription.


If there's not, just move to another country or get over it and go to your two years of constription as sonn as possible so you will still be young enough afterward to continue your studies or do whatever else you plan.

Well, the conscription is 2.5 years, and it depends. It might be longer, depending on your physical status.
The main reason why I really dislike this conscription thing is that when I get out, I would be around 22 years old. Also, I can garuntee that when I get out, I would have lost 99% of my computing knowledge, not to mention programming.
That means I would need to take around another 3 years at least to learn all that I need, and more. As time goes by, there's more and more to know and adapt to, which is why.
The other reason is the market. Who can predict just where the market is going in several years time? By the time I get out, I would be a jungle man, the fact is. Even great guys like Alan Greenspan have problems nowadays predicting accurately how the market is going to become.

If there are ways, give us a list of them and we may try to help you find a solution.


The tricky part here is that I started too late. Because over here, once you're 16.5 years old and beyond, u need permission to study overseas or apply for higher studies and such. I know some folks in other countries delibrately pursue higher studies so that they can delay their conscription, but this plan wouldn't work here, that's why.

The one and only plan which will defintely work is to give up your citizenship, of course. I've already confirmed this with the military staff, but then, you need to find a country before you give up your citizenship, or else you might have nowehere to go.
I'm working on this possibility, and that's why I'm trying to bide for as much time as possible. I might still be able to delay conscription for around 1 - 3 years at the very most, and if I get 3 years before doing any conscription, chances are that I'm already very safe. So, to get time, I must try to handle this attachment programme first, cos' if I don't, this monster is going to suck up 3 full months of my time, and 3 full months is no joke.

Last thing, is conscription being a soldier, or can it be something else? When we had that in France there was the possibility to perform more scientific jobs, even within the army, and I got a coupla friends who managed to be programmers there.

That's why you guys are having it real cool and easy! Over here, you've only 2 choices : become a policeman or a solider. Being a policeman is somewhat easier, but it's not at all easy to become one. Very few actually become policemen serving conscription, but either way, it's at least 2.5 years.

If we can have more scientific jobs while serving conscription, I would still be considering it, but not in this case. It's ridiculous.

That's why, Elrond. But thank you so much for your help too. :)

Good morning and see you,
Xeon.

[scarab_cn]

Hai,Xeon pal:
Firstly,I will uphold your plan and action forever!
To your "attachment programme",I think you shall tell your teacher about all your thinking,likely,you it will come bright side--all encouragements or views are warmly welcom!
Be brave,Xeon!:):)

Additional,I think how to escape the conscription is the matter.Let me read carefully and think....:rolleyes:

[scarab_cn]

I think you shall sincerely tell your teacher that programming is your life,you love it!
As a conscientious teacher,she should understand your mood and uphold you.
In addition,you can ask her for help by private relationship(or friendship):):)
Be brave just as a true man!You should hold the all approaches to your success....

[lily311]

Xeon:
It's possibly not what you want to hear, but I still think you should take Simon's idea into account.
What he said has its point.

Anyway, wish you find your way out.
And goodluck.:)

[Xeon]

Thanks a lot, Sacrab!
My! U've given me strength in this time of uncertainty and doom. :)
And I'll never forget your words!

And thanks a lot too for the kinda intentions and wishes of luck, Lily. May the Lord Bless you. :)

[Platinum Plus]

scarab_cn says I think you shall sincerely tell your teacher that programming is your life,you love it!
As a conscientious teacher,she should understand your mood and uphold you.
Platinum Question What role does teacher play in all this, Xeon ?

[Xeon]

Well, Platinum.........if the teacher supports my plans for not going for the attachment programme, I would be able to succeed much more easily......in fact, if the teacher agrees with me, 99% of the chances are that I don't need to go for this attachment programme and if I don't, I'll be able to get more time to handle Conscription and deal with it.

But of course, given the fact that these guys are really realistic and won't listen to any idea that is different from the norm(trust me : I've observed them really closely and such), they would just brush off my idea, and worse still, they might even think of ways to make me give it up. That must never happen.

I was thinking of telling her as follows :

Plan 1


Xeon : Hi there! I don't wanna go for that attachment programme.
Teacher : No. You must go. All your friends are going and you're not?
Xeon : But I've something important.


Now, at this point, she's sure to ask me what is so important. That's where I'm stuck.

The other possibility is : (lying that I'm going to another school when I'm not........lying is wrong.....but in this case, this lie does not harm anyone......all of us have lied before)

Plan 2:


Xeon : Hi there! I'm not going for that attachment programme cos' I'll be leaving this school anyway, most probably in February, and it's quite insensible to go for this attachment programme in that case.
Teacher : Really???!!! Which school are you going to then? Has it been approved?


In the case above, there's 3 outcomes :

1) She'll be asking for proof of the new school that I'm going to

This might be impossible. Even if I managed to get pass this hurdle, she might phone the "new school" and if she finds out the lie, it's gonna be He|| for me.

2) Phone my parents and discuss the issue with them.

This is a 50%-50% occurence. She might or might not phone my parents. In vocational schools, they treat you like adults, especially this teacher of mine, even though she has a history of calling students, although not their parents.
But if she calls me and my parents pick up the phone......alas! U get the idea.

If she doesn't phone my parents, this will be really nice and perfect. Wonderful.

3) The happiest ending of all : respect my choice

This is the best of the best. But it's not easy to achieve this in the first place.

That's why. There's loopholes in all of these counter-attachment programme solutions, that's why I need more ideas from you guys, especially creative ones like Simon666 and Platinum Plus, and more experienced ones like Elrond and Gabriel.
If there's a powerfully valid reason that can withstand most of the probing and such, I'm safe.
But chances are that some of you folks who're against all these(like Simon and Gabriel) will not reply, of course. I understand, and it's ok. :)

But anyway, I'm gonna think of a valid reason in the meantime, and if I can't think of any, I'm gonna risk everything and proceed with Plan 2.

That's why, and a happy good night, guys. Thank you for all these.
Xeon.

[Elrond]

There's very little chances a lie will work. If it doesn't, your situation will be much worse.

And this lie about going to another school... Even if she believes you, what will you do after three month? Go back to your old school? What will you tell your teacher? That is was a lie?

About this attachment:
What kind of work are you meant to do? What knid of compagnie will you work for and how is it choosen? Can you do something to end in a compagny were you would do some programming? In this case, even if it will be tough for you to work on your program, the experience will not be lost.

[Xeon]

Hi there Elrond! :)

There's very little chances a lie will work. If it doesn't, your situation will be much worse.

Yes. I understand this.


And this lie about going to another school... Even if she believes you, what will you do after three month? Go back to your old school? What will you tell your teacher? That is was a lie?

U see, Elrond......my program will be released by December 2002/January 2003. By that time, I'll be able to answer to my parents and tell them all my proposals. That's the part where I would reveal everything at one shot.

I can't tell them that I'm gonna forgo this attachment programme for my own project : they're not gonna believe it till they see at least something working.
Once I've their support, I'll sign up for a private school and write to the army and try to delay the conscription. Then, I would leave my current school.

Once I've reached that stage, everything would continue as usual in my plans to counter conscription and pursue my dreams.

So, it's very crucial that I don't end up in this attachment programme and lose a precious 3 full months of time.
And in order not to end up in this attachment programme, my teacher is a key factor.


About this attachment:
What kind of work are you meant to do? What knid of compagnie will you work for and how is it choosen? Can you do something to end in a compagny were you would do some programming? In this case, even if it will be tough for you to work on your program, the experience will not be lost.

Kinda work we're suppose to do?
Well :

1) Database entry of some sort
2) Miscellaneous task-doer(sweeping the floor, cleaning rubbish, making coffee)
3) Filing papers and documents
4) Clerk and basic administration work

And as for the companies we work in, it's mostly computer-related. But one thing is clear : no kind of programming will be involved. The most they ever allow you to do is basic web site design like FrontPage, basic Flash or Dreamweaver.

So, as you can see, Elrond......all these......can u believe it? Sure, I'll get some "working experience", but is it really worth it? Aye~.

[dimm_coder]

May be I missed something, but what is a program U have been developing?

[gjs368]

Xeon,
I would give this advice to my own son. The only difference is he probably wouldn't have to ask for it.

1) Lying is NEVER a good policy.

2) Running away from problems never really helps anything but instead complicates many things for a long time.

3) Not all obligations are welcome, convienient, or in line with choices we wish to make for ourselves or those we love.

4) ANYTHING worth doing is worth fighting for even if no one but you sees the value of it.

5)Never be so closed minded as to dismiss ANY advice without at least weighing ALL the benefits and long-term advantages they may offer.

In short, the only clear course of actions is to hold to your convictions honestly, present a realistic idea of your plans to those who could help (in this instance, your parents and teachers, who could become your most powerful allies) - Let them see and use your program as an example of the abilities you currently posses and hope to build on - and above all, maturity demands acceptance of this fact:
be open to the very real and likely outcome of facing one or more undesired and unpleasent situations that will pass into some point in your life that may delay or alter your plans (it happens to everyone).

All of us face decisions that impact our future and that, once made, can not be undone.


I wish you all the best,
gjs

[Xeon]

Hi there Dimm! U can have a look at my program in one of these threads in the General Discussion forum called "Need Beta-Testers/users....."
I've attached a very mini version of the entire thing for specific testing, although much remains to be done. The icons are still in their infancy and although the quality and such is not that good, I'm improving on it.

Well, guys who have develop OSes like Gabriel and such will scoff at it, probably, but we all have a right to, right? :)

And oh......GJS368......I bet that's the name of some computer processor of the past or something. :)
Well, nice to hear from you.


Lying is NEVER a good policy.


I'm aware, and I haven't told any lies for ages. But sometimes, a lie is a must, it depends. We just have to be flexible sometimes.
In C++ programming, books and scrolls have warned against the use of the 'goto' statement. But surely, on this entire planet, there's really at least 1 case whereby someone has to use it cos' it's optimal for the situation, right?


Running away from problems never really helps anything but instead complicates many things for a long time.


Ah no.....I'm not running away! It's just that I refuse to accept my fate. That will be the last thing I'll ever do in life.


ANYTHING worth doing is worth fighting for even if no one but you sees the value of it.


One of the best of all statements here; thank you, GJS368.


Never be so closed minded as to dismiss ANY advice without at least weighing ALL the benefits and long-term advantages they may offer.


I've been open and weighing all my options, the advantages and disadvantages of my plans 2 years ago, almost daily......been revising them through and through.
I try to think of all the good benefits and advantages of going to the attachment programme, going to conscription.

If I just accept my fate and follow it, my life would be so much easier and sweeter.
If I had just accepted my fate, I would be like just any of my friends now.
But I dislike this route in life, which is why I must choose to fight against it.


be open to the very real and likely outcome of facing one or more undesired and unpleasent situations that will pass into some point in your life that may delay or alter your plans (it happens to everyone).


I understand what you mean, GJS368.
But in this case, once your plans are delayed, that is the end. How many more years do I have to wait before I can continue with my plans again? If I allow my plans to be delayed, altered, or both, chances are that I'll never have such a good chance again.

Opportunity knocks only once : once you miss it, that's it. U can regret for a hundred years and still, it will never come.

I know we all face unpleasant situations in life everyday, but some situations are so darn serious that you really have to do something about it.

My most commonly brought-up analogy :

If your parents force you(assume this) to marry some girl you dislike, would be be submissive to your destiny and marry her?
I dunno, but for me......I would never.
I would rather choose to defy it and even if I still fail, at least I wouldn't regret, because I've tried my best.
It's so much better than sitting there and waiting for God to save you and such, for God only helps those who helps themselves.


I wish you all the best,
gjs


Thanks a lot, pal! :)

Now, does anyone have any juicy ideas and such to postpone this attachment programme?

[scarab_cn]

When do you make the final decision for "attachment programme"?

[Xeon]

Hi there Scarab!

Final decision? Well, we'll be going to the attachment programme on the 1st of December 2002, which is real soon.
That's why I gonna make plans now, or else it's gonna be too late. :)

Nice day,
Xeon.

[CBasicNet]

Xeon,please check your pm

A solution is to convince your teacher and school to let you do your software at home. And at the end of the attachment period, show them your completed program as proof of your work but you must make it clear to them that you own full rights to your executable and source (meaning the software belongs to you only, not the school and you need not reveal any source).

But that's unlikely to happen.

[Xeon]

See my PM, CBasicNet pal. :)

[CBasicNet]

Originally posted by Xeon
See my PM, CBasicNet pal. :)

Replied

[Platinum Plus]

Easy on the PMs now ;) ,CBasicNet, did you go for this conscription ?

[Xeon]

Well, Platinum Plus......CBasicNet did went for this conscription. :)

Anyway, hope you've been doin' well, Platinum Plus. :D

[scarab_cn]

Hai,Xeon pal:
How about the annoying thing proceed?
Expecting good news from you....:p :p :p

[Xeon]

Hi there Scarab! Thanks a lot! ;)
The attachment programme is in around 3 weeks time, and I've decided to lie to my teacher. :)
If I succeed, life will be sweet.
If I lose, well.......I shall be prepared to face toturing, of course. :)

[Platinum Plus]

I've decided to lie to my teacher. No Xeon, lying should not be an option.I shall be prepared to face toturing, of course That does not qualify as torture. It's just a minor setback, 2 years, and when you are back it's

.net version 8.0 running on Windows LQ :D
Visual C^
Visual J**
Visual Complex .net
UltraDev ~
Pentium XXX Meon
No mice for the desktop (I'll have freed them all) for pointing devices ~ index fingers ;)
No more Windows Explorer just Windows Discoverer :D:D:D

[gjs368]

The likely outcome appears to be:
SchoolOfHardKnocks hk;
hk.EnrollNewStudent(&Xeon);

[Elrond]

Originally posted by Xeon
Hi there Scarab! Thanks a lot! ;)
The attachment programme is in around 3 weeks time, and I've decided to lie to my teacher. :)
If I succeed, life will be sweet.
If I lose, well.......I shall be prepared to face toturing, of course. :)

What do you want to say to her?

And even if you succeed, it seems a long way before life is swet and conscription cancelled.

[gjs368]

Xeon,
I could not help but notice your quote of Abraham Lincoln. It might interest you to know how he was able to cope with difficulty early in his life:

"I was born Feb. 12, 1809, in Hardin County, Kentucky.
My parents were both born in Virginia, of undistinguished families-
-second families, perhaps I should say. My mother, who died in
my tenth year, was of a family of the name of Hanks.... My
father ... removed from Kentucky to ... Indiana, in my eighth year.... It was a wild region, with many bears and other wild
animals still in the woods. There I grew up.... Of course when I came of age I did not know much. Still somehow, I could read, write, and cipher ... but that was all."

Lincoln made extraordinary efforts to attain knowledge while working on a farm, splitting rails for fences, and keeping store at New Salem, Illinois. He was a captain in the Black Hawk War,
spent eight years in the Illinois legislature, and rode the circuit of courts for many years. His law partner said of him, "His ambition was a little engine that knew no rest."
From http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/al16.html

I’m sure that he didn’t have much interest in splitting fence rails or minding a store. However, he was able to further his interests without sidestepping necessary obligations or resorting to telling lies to remove the obligations, and the hardships of his life did not deter him….

[scarab_cn]

Originally posted by Platinum Plus
No Xeon, lying should not be an option. That does not qualify as torture. It's just a minor setback, 2 years, and when you are back it's

Yeah,Don't escape the setback,Be brave to meet it and fight it!:mad: :mad:

Whichever,I will uphold you!

[Xeon]

Thank you, guys. :)

From Platinum Plus:

That does not qualify as torture. It's just a minor setback, 2 years, and when you are back it's

.net version 8.0 running on Windows LQ
Visual C^
Visual J**
Visual Complex .net
UltraDev ~
Pentium XXX Meon
No mice for the desktop (I'll have freed them all) for pointing devices ~ index fingers
No more Windows Explorer just Windows Discoverer

This is.......uugghh!

From Gjs368:


I’m sure that he didn’t have much interest in splitting fence rails or minding a store. However, he was able to further his interests without sidestepping necessary obligations or resorting to telling lies to remove the obligations, and the hardships of his life did not deter him….

Yes.....although I, by no means related to America or anything, the president I respected most throughout the world across the vastness of history was Abraham Lincoln. Compared to modern day George War Bush, the latter is more of like a mouse next to a great man. No offence, just my own personal views.
But if we can minimize hardship, why not?

I'm not a sadistic guy and I don't go out looking for pain or hardship for me to play with and enjoy.
In my case, this conscription is not considered hardship at all. It's more of like mental torture. Besides these 2.5 years, you still have to serve the army every now and then until you reach 40 years old.
This wastes lots of time, for one thing. Although I'm only 18, time and tide waits for no man.
4 days ago, it was November 1st 2002. And for some reason, today is the 5th! Isn't that real fast?!
I'm not gonna spend my time in conscription and waste my life away. If it's just 3 - 5 months, I might consider. But not 2.5 years and beyond.

From Elrond:

What do you want to say to her?
And even if you succeed, it seems a long way before life is swet and conscription cancelled.


Regarding the first part, read the reply to Scarab below.
As for life not being sweet even if this attachment programme is postponed, I've already got used to this fact.
The tougher it is to avoid conscription, the more exciting the battle is.
Seen in a more positive light, this next-to-impossible behemoth is the battle of a life-time : a really dangerous and large gamble, which is thrilling, meaninful and great at the same time.

From Scarab:
Yeah,Don't escape the setback,Be brave to meet it and fight it!
Whichever,I will uphold you!


The head of the IT department has just replied to my question, and according to him, the attachment programme is only compulsory for the IT department(the department I'm in). Isn't this kinda unfair?

But there's no time to reason and debate with fairness or unfairness.
The teacher is already darn hard to get pass, not to mention this head of department, for he's officially(known by all) a trillion times more practical and unfeeling than my teacher was.
Trying to persuade him would be like trying to write a program that can create life on Saturn.

I've decided :

I'm gonna sit and wait on my couch till it's hot enough to cook chicken chops and live life as usual, and wait until the day the attachment programme starts.
When that grim day arrive, I'm not gonna lift a leg.
I shall wait till those guys call me up and ask what I'm doing at home.
And I shall say that I'm considering of changing school and that there's no real need for the attachment programme in that case.

The only part I gotta watch out is : never let my parents get the phone. :cool:

[Elrond]

Originally posted by Xeon
The only part I gotta watch out is : never let my parents get the phone. :cool:

You have to know that one way or another, your parents will know. Either you will be in the bathroom when the school will call, or they will find strange that you are home instead of at your attachment program and they will call your school, ...

I think that's a very dangerous gamble you're heading to, and with too little chances of success, the worst being that even in case of success, you'll have very little too win, while in case of failure, you can loose a lot.

[Xeon]

From Elrond:

You have to know that one way or another, your parents will know. Either you will be in the bathroom when the school will call, or they will find strange that you are home instead of at your attachment program and they will call your school, ...


Yes, yes. I've thought of this before. Once, I was in the bathroom when my teacher actually called my house, and my mom picked up the phone, and after I stepped outta the bathroom, they started launching their nuclear bombs and blasted me till my world laid in ruins.
But currently, they're not aware of the attachment programme yet. :)


I think that's a very dangerous gamble you're heading to, and with too little chances of success, the worst being that even in case of success, you'll have very little too win, while in case of failure, you can loose a lot.


Yeah, yes.....I understand. But really, there's 2 options, which are either equally worst or worse still :

1) Have a "chat" with that head of department......but like I've said before, trying to convince him is like trying to get a hungry lion to eat grass instead of a fat, juicy deer

2) Go for the 3 full months of attachment programme......if I choose this route, the truth is that I'll have less than 6 proper hours per week to work on anything computer-related in my home, not to mention my project whatsoever.
This route is the safest of all, but it will greatly diminish my chances against conscription, which is the horrifying mother of this attachment programme. And that's a no-no.

All 3 ways are too darn risky, so I might wanna think of some more solutions.
Now, wise old Elrond who has studied the stars and read many a great philosopher masterpiece.......art thou not able to suggest some great ideas?

Thanks anyway. :)

[scarab_cn]

Originally posted by Xeon
The only part I gotta watch out is : never let my parents get the phone. :cool:

Why??Your parents should know the whole thing!

[
The head of the IT department has just replied to my question, and according to him, the attachment programme is only compulsory for the IT department(the department I'm in). Isn't this kinda unfair?

Is the attachment programme compulsory only to IT department?other departments haven't the obligatory?If so,it's unfair to IT department.
:o :o :o

[Xeon]

From Scarab:

Why??Your parents should know the whole thing!


If they know the whole thing, they're gonna.........uggghh!!!


Is the attachment programme compulsory only to IT department?other departments haven't the obligatory?If so,it's unfair to IT department.


Yes. It is compulsory only to the IT department. :)

[Simon666]

OK, it appears you screwed up your homework in class, turned down an opportunity to go to college though you probably are capable of succeeding there, you ly to your teachers and even your parents. I had sympathy at first, but I am seriously reconsidering.

[galathaea]

I understand why everyone is posting as they are. They want to help you and they don't want you to get hurt. I don't want that either, but my opinion is different. First, lying is often a Good Thing. We all know that. NEVER NEVER NEVER tell a girl that she doesn't quite look too hot when she asks. She wants reassurance, not truth. NEVER NEVER NEVER tell your boss that his idea is stupid....

You're in a hard position. If you just ask about what your options are and find out you don't have any, you miss any chance of pulling off any future lies about the situation. And your facing a society that believes it has the right to tell you what to do in life. Xeon, I don't have all the facts. I'm not you. I don't know (that intuitive know) how friendly the people who control your destiny are. I would hate to give you bad advice so I won't even try to tell you how to handle it. But Xeon, please, whatever you do, don't give up what you want to do.

And to those telling you to suck it up. You know they're part of the problem. Its your life, not the state's.

[Xeon]

From Galathaea:

I understand why everyone is posting as they are. They want to help you and they don't want you to get hurt. I don't want that either, but my opinion is different.

Yes, yes. I understand. These guys are just great. :)
I love them, really.

But I guess it's really more of personal traits than anything. 99% of the folks here in Codeguru are working under a company, and I don't think they ever had a chance to make any gambles with their future or anything.
And I would say that if this thread was posted in other forums of visited by people of vastly different backgrounds, I would get new and unheard-of views and opinions.


First, lying is often a Good Thing. We all know that. NEVER NEVER NEVER tell a girl that she doesn't quite look too hot when she asks. She wants reassurance, not truth. NEVER NEVER NEVER tell your boss that his idea is stupid....


Well, when talking about gurls, the thing is that even if she's ugly, you MUST NOT tell her she's ugly. U have to take an indirect approach, cos' these funny li'l creatures gets very uptght if they sense any hints of them being "plump" and such. :)


You're in a hard position. If you just ask about what your options are and find out you don't have any, you miss any chance of pulling off any future lies about the situation.


Indeed, my options are almost all equally tied in a dead end.
But I strongly believe there's loopholes and points whereby we can exploit in even the toughest situations.
It's only a matter of being creative, observant and opportunistic. ;)


And your facing a society that believes it has the right to tell you what to do in life. Xeon, I don't have all the facts. I'm not you. I don't know (that intuitive know) how friendly the people who control your destiny are.


Over here, the folks ain't as flexible as in other countries. The rules are hard-fixed, from school rules to government rules.
The mindset of the majority of people here is that they follow what the majority of fellow countrymen do, leaving very little room for out-of-the-box creativity.

This can be clearly seen in the fact that they don't have very much(or probably less than 15) shareware authors in the entire country of 4 million people, whereas in the US and other countries, the numbers are relatively and proportionally different.

Now, some of you old-timers might have remember this Codeguru guy of the past called Maxcode, whose real name was *****************
Unless I'm wrong, he's currently 19 years old now.(older than me by 1 year)
Before he left this forum, he actually posted a quite-desperate thread seeking donations to keep his web site alive. His web site was something like a mini-version of Codeguru. It's at http://www.********.***
On that particular thread, quite a number of people replied, and lots of them poured cold water on him and gave him all sortta negative ideas.(but 2 people stood by him : Xeon and one other pal I've forgotten)
This guy never gave up and there he is. :)

Although that site is not as grand or great as Codeguru or CodeProject, it definetly is admirable and satisfy the lust of self-fulfilment.


I would hate to give you bad advice so I won't even try to tell you how to handle it. But Xeon, please, whatever you do, don't give up what you want to do.
And to those telling you to suck it up. You know they're part of the problem. Its your life, not the state's.


Yes, and why! Thank you so much, Galathaea! U're the man! :D
I will never forget that!

Anyway, there's still around 15++ days left. I might be able to get some hints, inspirations, tips and tricks and some insight on how Lincoln solved the tough and tricky problem of black slavery back in the US around 1845.
He uses a very indirect style of addressing the problem and actually told different opinions to different states in the US.(something like the good version of a double-crosser)
Hhhmmmm.........

[Gabriel: You should not disclose the identity of anybody without express permission.]

[thedarkavenger]

Er...........
I dont know if i have arrived too late and if xeon has already become a famous programmer and started another micosoft-like company, But may i know what step xeon has chosen and is currently doing???
Coz If he still hasnt done anything yet, I would like to give my opnion and advice which i would like xoen to hear...it concerns a bit of my history coz i came from singapore too.
And i am 19+ too
But I am mainly a communications engg and just a freelance programmer..u know the ones who program for a hobby.

[Simon666]

It is explained in the long first post of this thread.

[scarab_cn]

Originally posted by Simon666
OK, it appears you screwed up your homework in class, turned down an opportunity to go to college though you probably are capable of succeeding there, you ly to your teachers and even your parents. I had sympathy at first, but I am seriously reconsidering.

I think:
This is past.Xeon has joined the vocational school instead of college school for long time.Discussing about it have not real meaning.The current important task is how to solve the attachment programme .

Xeon,lying is wrong,when you lie,the thing what you lose more than the thing what you get!You will lose you excellent character.

Xeon,you should know that the attachment programme is only a little setback.Whichever you choice(to escape the attachment or not),the result is not a real disaster.So,you don't do extreme everything!

[Elrond]

Originally posted by galathaea
I understand why everyone is posting as they are. They want to help you and they don't want you to get hurt. I don't want that either, but my opinion is different. First, lying is often a Good Thing. We all know that. NEVER NEVER NEVER tell a girl that she doesn't quite look too hot when she asks. She wants reassurance, not truth. NEVER NEVER NEVER tell your boss that his idea is stupid....

There's different kinds of lies. Hiding your personal opinion is not exactly the same thing as hiding facts that other people know.

And by hiding your opinion about a girl, you don't risk much. By hiding what Xeon is hiding, the risks of failure and the possible losses are much greater than the chances of success and the possible gains.

Xeon should be looking for a way to escape conscription more than a way to escape the attachment program. It's very hard to give advices about that while not knowing how things are really managed in his country. The way people think and act is different from ours, and what may seem bad to me may be acceptable there (and the vice versa).

Xeon:
Gambling is one thing. You have to know when to gamble as well. Is gambling as early and for such a thing as the attachment program not too risky? If you fail, you'll be in a much worse situation when it will come to gamble to postpone or avoid the conscription. Be really careful if you choose that way.

[Xeon]

From Gabriel:

[Gabriel: You should not disclose the identity of anybody without express permission.]


Oh Gabriel! But everyone who was around when this guy was around knew his real name and such! He was quite popular at that time, cos' he asked very simple questions, and the reasons were clear : he wanted everyone to notice his signature, which contains a link to his web site.
While I'm aware of this saying that goes, "There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers", this guy was clearly a power-coder, but he actually asked questions like, "How to show a message box?" and others which include how to use radio buttons(very simple ones) and such. Thus, most of us who saw his posts knew him. :)

From TheDarkAvenger:

I dont know if i have arrived too late and if xeon has already become a famous programmer and started another micosoft-like company, But may i know what step xeon has chosen and is currently doing???


Hmmm......I sense some hints of sarcasm, but I really am lusting after more sarcasms and cold water. But anyway, regarding my steps, do read below, among the replies.


Coz If he still hasnt done anything yet, I would like to give my opnion and advice which i would like xoen to hear...it concerns a bit of my history coz i came from singapore too.


Whoa! Cool! Maybe you care to share? :)

From Scarab:

I think:
This is past.Xeon has joined the vocational school instead of college school for long time.Discussing about it have not real meaning.The current important task is how to solve the attachment programme.....

Thank you, Scarab! I know you're a person of high integrity, and I'll try my best not to lie, but really.......there's both good lies with good intentions and bad lies with bad intentions.
From what I see, if lying doesn't hurt anyone in even the least bit, it's quite ok, given the situations.

From Elrond:

Gambling is one thing. You have to know when to gamble as well. Is gambling as early and for such a thing as the attachment program not too risky? If you fail, you'll be in a much worse situation when it will come to gamble to postpone or avoid the conscription. Be really careful if you choose that way.

Thank you, Elrond!

But yesterday, late at night, while I was sleeping, I was thinking of this problem in an almost subconscious state, and I just keep telling myself there has to be a way around this.
And it seems, there appears to be at least 1 new way of solving this.

As I've mentioned before, there's currently 4 ways to get around this : all of which are totally risky.
They're :

1) Sitting at home when all others are going for the attachment programme and waiting for them to call, and not give my parents a chance to get the phone
2) Lie to my teachers that I'm gonna switch school next year and there's no meaning in going for that attachment programme in that case
3) Have a chat with the head of department and tell him all my plans and pray that he would understand, although the chances are 99.9% to 0.1%.
4) Go for the 3 full months of attachment programme and risk failing everything and getting overpowered by my greatest enemy, conscription

Now, yesterday, I thought of this 5th idea, which appears to be somewhat straight-forward and minimize the risks greatly. Here it is :

Xeon: Hi teacher! I wish to postpone this attachment programme till my 3rd year.
Teacher:(suprised)Huh!!!! But why? Is there something wrong?
Xeon:(laughs) Ha ha....no. It's just that I'm quite stressed out these few months doing all my projects.
Because the load will be much lighter in my 3rd year, so it's better for me to wait till then.
Besides, I need a good holiday to rest.
Teacher: But in your third year, you still have subjects to take, right?
Plus, postponing this will affect your certificates and such.
Xeon:Yeah, I know. But after I've finished conscription, I will be going to private institutions to study, and then to polytechnics and such. So, it's ok.
And......I hope you can understand.

Those sentences highlighted in blue are lies.
But as you can see, this appears to be a much safer and better approach, and I dare say chances are that they ain't gonna phone my parents if I try this method.
This is cos' the teachers tend to treat us more like adults.(limited tolerance, of course)
As long as I don't blow this thing up, they ain't gonna phone my parents.
In addition, you can probably see that I'm capitalising and focusing all my advances on one point : my physical well-being and mental health.


Xeon should be looking for a way to escape conscription more than a way to escape the attachment program.

Yes, sure Elrond! But in my case, there's only 1 path to tackle conscription : have my arsenal up and running first.
I'm in no position to face conscription or anything, cos' over here, I'm the only one fighting for myself.
But once the program is launched, regardless of how great or pathetic success or failure, I will be able to get support on my side, from my parents and such. And with this new found power, everything would be much easier, from the morale part to the technical part.
And to reach that stage in the first place, I gotta avoid this attachment programme to get time. That's why.

I guess my main goal now is to further enhance on the new idea mention above(the 5th idea) and make it more convincing and fool-proof. Now, if you guys have any power-persuasion words/vocaburlary/grammar/style of speech you wanna suggest to further enhance the words in this idea, they're very warmly welcomed.

I'm also thinking of acting(facial expressions) to make everything more convincing.:cool:

Thank you so much, guys.
Xeon.

[scarab_cn]

Hai,Xeon
What I want to tell you is:
Sometimes,lying is necessary in serious situation,but before you lie,you must think it over that your lying hasn't hurt other people's sensation--it's to say when other people are aware of your lying,they could pardon you.If your lying couldn't be forgived,you must not lie.

In future,someday,when people are aware that you have lied to them,and they couldn't be tolerant,they couldn't trust you again.This will cause your failure in many aspects.Here,the lost are more than the gettable of your lying.

So ,lying is tolerable,but you should think over the result in future--Once they know the truth,what could they do?:o :o :o

[aio]

Yes. Instead of worrying about attachment program, go for it and establish contacts while in that program. Instead of avoiding military services, go for it too and establish contacts, other skills that you can 'relate later to VC++'.

If you go for those programs for the sake of 'completing a requirement' you will really feel sorry.

[Elrond]

Originally posted by aio
Yes. Instead of worrying about attachment program, go for it and establish contacts while in that program. Instead of avoiding military services, go for it too and establish contacts, other skills that you can 'relate later to VC++'.

If you go for those programs for the sake of 'completing a requirement' you will really feel sorry.

I partly agree with that. If you can avoid the attachment and the conscription, avoid them.

But if you finally end up doing them, try to enjoy them as much as possible, and to get as many contacts and experiences as possible. If you try, you will find sometimes that in a completly different area, you can learn something interesting for you work.

[Elrond]

One question:

Are you sure, if you manage to complete your program and to make it work well, that your parents, teachers, ... will start supporting you?

Are they even slightly aware of what you are doing? I don't speak about your plans to avoid conscription, but about your program. If not, speak to them about your program and try to see how they react and if they think it would be a good thing. Present saying that it is almost ready ... You can even show them some of what you already have (at least to your parents).

It would be good for you to be sure that they would be supportive in case of success. If they still don't care about your programming, program, ... You're probably doomed anyway and should revise completly your plans.

If you just throw everything to them when you're finished, they might take it the bad way:
"- Nice, but useless. It's stupid to have missed college... just for completing a stupid program".
"- We don't care about your @$#£$ program, why did you lie to us?"
"- This does not justify missing the attachment program. You're out of school and ready for starting your conscription NOW!"
"- ..."

Just think about that! ;)

[thedarkavenger]

Xeon , I guess i wrote that line too plainly,
I am not criticising you, In fact al the world's most famous people started off like you, a social reject...grades that sucked....discouraging parents and peers.
Well I doubt if the very first quality applies to you coz u dont seem to be a social reject.
Ok
Before i go any further,
I would like to know ,Xeon, if you are a chinese or a malay or a person of a different race whose parents migrated to singapore in the late 50s.

[galathaea]

As Elrond urges, you must really design some very good exception handling into your implementation before you execute it. This will take alot of planning for you Xeon, and must not allow any disastrous outcomes (is jail a possibility? blacklisting? i don't know enough about your system...) to be left unhandled. Use this mantra: Remember the design goal, remember the design goal, remember...

I would agree with aio if I felt that you would accept the attachment or conscription possibilities, but I know that you started this thread because you do not. That is okay, but to reach your goal you may have to do things you are not expecting to right now, so you must consider all the possibilities. I am talking about Sutter-like 20 possible exceptions in three lines of code type dilligence. Like If the worse possibility occurs, is leaving the country an option? type serious.

Now back to lying. You said

Ha ha....no. It's just that I'm quite stressed out these few months doing all my projects.

Is that really a lie? I think that most of the time someone is not doing well in school it is because of stress related exhaustion. It is hard to stay interested in everything that other people tell you you must be interested in. Remember, even thoug we're human, we're still animals, and it seems we have embraced that obsessive mutation that first made us tool users to frightening extents these days. You learned to walk. You learned to talk (maybe even two or more languages, like c++). And now their requiring of you to do even more. Your brain is the most glucose-consuming-oxygen-respiring-energy-eater organ in your body, and everything you strain to learn will wear you out more. So don't be embarassed if you are tired and need a rest. Everyone does. That is why I dislike the well, suck it up and do it mentality.

Use as few lies as possible. That's always a good idea. And never lie to accomplish something you find immoral, like hurting someone, but that is usually a tautology (most people don't do things they themselves find immoral). Make the lies you tell have the least consequences for you if (when?) someone finds out. I think thats where you and scarab_cn agree. But lying by itself is not a bad thing. Its the basis of language, where you convince others that sounds coming out of your mouth (or pictures on paper) really represent objects and actions in the world around you. That humans lie so well is why they came up with art and language and are so successful today.

Lies are the only real magic. You cast spells on others to get them to do what you want by lying to them (either fundamentally through the metaphors of language or explicitly to deceive them). But this magic is quite powerful and must be used with much intelligence or they may hurt you instead. Particularly deception spells, which is why you must always consider all of the possible outcomes, even the possibility that they might discover your true intent.

So Xeon, please be careful about what you do. Be thoughtful. Be selective. But do try to accomplish what you want to do. Its your life (your only life), and if you are not happy, your time has been wasted.

PS: I would definitely stress the tired/stressed-out side concerning your health as you intend. It definitely elicits compassion and tolerance, and believe it just might be true. You would have less consequences.

[Xeon]

From Scarab:

Sometimes,lying is necessary in serious situation,but before you lie,you must think it over that your lying hasn't hurt other people's sensation--it's to say when other people are aware of your lying,they could pardon you......


Nay Scarab! I know they'll forgive me. In one way or another. :)

From AIO:

Yes. Instead of worrying about attachment program, go for it and establish contacts while in that program. Instead of avoiding military services, go for it too and establish contacts, other skills that you can 'relate later to VC++'.


Yes, I've thought of this before, but really.....the disadvantages of going for conscription outweighs any advantages. The most obvious advantage if I go for this conscription is that I get more muscular, but then, I can always go to the gym instead...


If you go for those programs for the sake of 'completing a requirement' you will really feel sorry.

Yes, that's why. It's meaningless.

From Elrond:

I partly agree with that. If you can avoid the attachment and the conscription, avoid them.
But if you finally end up doing them, try to enjoy them as much as possible, and to get as many contacts and experiences as possible...


Yes, too true, Elrond. While I still have my chances, I'll fight while I can. But if I still fail despite all that I've tried and more, then I shall try to make the best of it......but failing in my case should never be an option.


Are you sure, if you manage to complete your program and to make it work well, that your parents, teachers, ... will start supporting you?


Yes, they'll! Especially my parents.
My dad, for once, has been asking me every now and then if I have created any useful software(be it cool or lousy) from all my learning. By this, he was assuming that the school was teaching us how to create software and such, but that's impossible. The school only teaches you up to a certain standard, and I'm darn glad that I gave up my college to learn Visual C++.

Of course, I'm darn aware my programming skills are not even 1% of what Elrond or Gabriel has, but at least, that can be learnt if you have the heart and time. :)

Anyway, I can't tell my dad right now what I'm doing. This is cos' he needs to see the final output before he believes anything, but I know chances are that he's gonna support me once he sees the final product.


Are they even slightly aware of what you are doing? Present saying that it is almost ready ... You can even show them some of what you already have (at least to your parents).


(read above)


If they still don't care about your programming, program, ... You're probably doomed anyway and should revise completly your plans.

Nay! If I know they're gonna ignore my plans even after I've show them the final product, then my plans wouldn't be structured in the way it is now. I've started observing their behaviour the past 2 years towards me and such, and I've adpted my plans to deal with all these.


If you just throw everything to them when you're finished, they might take it the bad way:
"- Nice, but useless. It's stupid to have missed college... just for completing a stupid program".
"- We don't care about your @$#£$ program, why did you lie to us?"
"- This does not justify missing the attachment program. You're out of school and ready for starting your conscription NOW!"


Nay, Elrond! I'll push out my plans slowly, one by one.
If after the program is launched and I shoot all my plans(including conscription) at their faces, chances are that it's gonna be too much for them to take. So, I gotta push out one part of the plan, wait for time, and slowly bit by bit, push out another part. :)

From TheDarkAvenger:

In fact al the world's most famous people started off like you, a social reject...grades that sucked....discouraging parents and peers. Well I doubt if the very first quality applies to you coz u dont seem to be a social reject.


Nah! I'm no social reject, but all the other factors you mention are quite true. But then, I believe that success is measure by yourself, and not by others. Besides, having lots of money doesn't mean you're successful in life. :)


Ok...Before i go any further,
I would like to know ,Xeon, if you are a chinese or a malay or a person of a different race whose parents migrated to singapore in the late 50s.


My grandfather was a negro from Africa who went to China to marry my French-Chinese grandmother. Later on, they produced a couple of kids, which includes my father.(African-Chinese-French)
Later in life, my dad married my mom, who was of Brazilian-Danish-Australian-Indian descent.
And these 2 gave birth to me, so I'm of African-Chinese-French-Brazilian-Danish-Australian-Indian descent.
In conclusiuon, I'm really a Chinese-Singaporean.(u see, folks.....Singapore consisted of 3 main races : Indians, Chinese, Malays) and 2 smaller race groups : Caucasian and Eurasian.

From Galathaea:

As Elrond urges, you must really design some very good exception handling into your implementation before you execute it. This will take alot of planning for you Xeon, and must not allow any disastrous outcomes (is jail a possibility? blacklisting? i don't know enough about your system...) to be left unhandled. Use this mantra: Remember the design goal, remember the design goal, remember...


My! Yes...I'll try to use the 'try' & 'catch(...)' error handling macros.
And yes : if you escape conscription or just refuse to go for conscription, you're gonna be thrown into jail. Period.

But if you escape conscription && give up your Singapore citizenship, these folks can only sit back and eat chicken chop. Nothing they can do.
At my current stage, there's 2 options :

1) Join some terrorist network and blast the **** outta the entire country, espcially the military side; that way.....no conscription

2) Bide for time and give up your citizenship and get settled in a foreign land.
I know immigration isn't easy, but having an immigration lawyer helps a lot. That's why time is my biggest enemy and my biggest ally.
With time, almost anything is possible. And that's a fact.
Also, an immigration lawyer will be darn useful, cos' he/she can even help you to spot possible loopholes in the conscription issue and advise you and such.

The 1st is totally impossible, but the 2nd......although tough, is very very possible.


I would agree with aio if I felt that you would accept the attachment or conscription possibilities, but I know that you started this thread because you do not. That is okay, but to reach your goal you may have to do things you are not expecting to right now, so you must consider all the possibilities. I am talking about Sutter-like 20 possible exceptions in three lines of code type dilligence. Like If the worse possibility occurs, is leaving the country an option? type serious.


U understand me pretty well, Galathaea. :)
Indeed, I had rather die than to succumb to these 2.
The question now is not whether I should escape them, but how.


Is that really a lie? I think that most of the time someone is not doing well in school it is because of stress related exhaustion........So don't be embarassed if you are tired and need a rest. Everyone does. That is why I dislike the well, suck it up and do it mentality.

Nay, Galathaea! This IS a lie! I don't feel at all stressed, or tired out, or the least bit exhausted. But I'm just emphasizing on this factor to fight off the attachment programme.


And never lie to accomplish something you find immoral, like hurting someone, but that is usually a tautology (most people don't do things they themselves find immoral).


Of course, Galathaea! There's 2 kinda tricks : clean and dirty. I would never try any sortta dirty tricks that would harm anyone in anyway. Some coporate executives actually resort to underhand tactics to get what they want.
If the Devil ever ask me :

"Xeon, you can escape conscription if you allow one of your friend/family legs to be chopped off. How's that?"

Of course, I would never agree to that. In such a case, I had rather go for conscription than to see anyone getting hurt.


Lies are the only real magic. You cast spells on others to get them to do what you want by lying to them (either fundamentally through the metaphors of language or explicitly to deceive them)......

Yeah, right. Around 2 years ago, I joined this stage acting club. This should provide me with some useful and deceptive facial expressions.
I think I'm gonna talk to my teacher in a grave and solemn tone, as if I'm totally tired and such. ;)


PS: I would definitely stress the tired/stressed-out side concerning your health as you intend. It definitely elicits compassion and tolerance, and believe it just might be true. You would have less consequences.


Yes, true. Usually, if you try this kinda tactic on a woman, it's easier, cos' they tend to be gentler and more.....umm.....how do you say that? Umm.....they tend to be more passionate and have more feelings. Although it is wrong to take advantage of this, there's really nothing I can do. After all, it's facts. :)

See you guys, and nice day! :cool:
Xeon.

[Simon666]

I think you've just take over the longest post trophee from me. :(

[Xeon]

Cheer up, Simon! It's ok. We can share the trophy, I guess. :):D
(that thead of mine was around 9400 characters, if I remembered correctly) :):)

[scarab_cn]

Xeon wrote the longest post I have seen:p :p

[Xeon]

Thank you, Scarab. Maybe you can learn some English and further enhance your English skills and such from this long post. :):);)

[scarab_cn]

Originally posted by Xeon
Thank you, Scarab. Maybe you can learn some English and further enhance your English skills and such from this long post. :):);)
Xeon pal:
Thank you for your encouragement,i have learned more from you all,but I feel my English level is still poor:o :o :o

[Xeon]

Relax, Scarab! Learning everything takes time. :):)

[thedarkavenger]

Look Xeon I don’t know if you are being sarcastic about your origin or not but,
If you have some relative staying abroad AND if you are not one of those slit eyed, straight haired, pig faced Chinese fellows, Then I’d suggest you to take a tourist VISA and go to the country of your relative as a tourist. Then from there just extend your VISA for a couple of months and then stop renewing it.
You would be staying in that country as an illegal immigrant, but it is only for a few years. Then take a citizenship test there and you get your citizenship. You can then throw your Singapore citizenship in the sea or send it back to Singapore with compliments.
Because Honey I DID THE VERY SAME THING!!!!
And I am not lying here.
I was an Indian Singaporean born in Singapore and I migrated to Australia using this very same technique. I didn’t pay no $75,000 Bond, I dint have to keep going back to Singapore every now and then. I did get some reminders but I ignored it. I have lived in Australia for 7 years and I got my Australian citizenship in my 5th year of residence.
The whole of my mother's side migrated to Singapore in 1920 before Singapore became the Singapore it is now.
There were the slums, the sewage, the flowing drain water when it rained etc... My ancestors came to Singapore before your Lee Quan Yew got his brilliant idea to clean up Singapore.
But unfortunately whatever you attribute to Singapore you have to admit that, that island depends on the US, the UK and the other Big Boys who actually make the world turn.
If the Big Boys fall, so will Singapore. It can't stand on its own. It even has to import fresh water from Malaysia. It has no resources whatsoever. You know what happened on September 11th. When the stock market crashed the first country to get kicked in the shins was Singapore. I am sure you would have learnt in the Singaporean geography and civics textbooks (I studied there till secondary 1 and I was in the express stream) that Singapore is nothing but a port, a place of trade. It gets its money by allowing ships to stop by and fill up. That’s all. After you finish reading this message just take a look at the Singapore stock exchange. Now I told you that my mother’s side migrated to Singapore in the early 19th century. Now there is hardly anyone left, why?
No1. They were wise and knew that if at sometime somewhere some country that was supplying Singapore says NO, we would all be in a soup. Take Malaysia for example, if they decide to stop supplying fresh water to Singapore you would have to drink rainwater.
No 2. They weren’t getting the recognition they deserved. My uncle had to study in Bendemeer Secondary school. He thought that he could get into Raffles secondary school the best in Singapore, which I’m sure you know about. Now he is doing his PhD in MIT. My aunt worked in Singapore for 29 years in the American express company but she was never given a promotion even once. Now she is working as a consultant in a very famous firm in Adelaide, Australia.
Take me, I was so **** sure I did well in my PSLE exams but I only got Macpherson secondary school. Now I am doing communications engineering & astrophysics in the University Of New South Wales, Australia (it’s the 2nd best in the world man after MIT. I worked so hard to get into it) Singapore made a mistake somewhere along the way. It can’t identify talented people. And you seem to be just the case. I sure you could get into Raffles if they could identify your talent as a programmer. I am telling you man, Singapore is going down the drain, just count the number of people leaving that country every month. They are the talented people like you. If you were staying in any other country you wouldn’t have even started this thread. So my advice is get out of that country as soon as possible. If you are the type who want to patriotic and stuff, you can haul your *** for that country and do the NS. In that case you’re missing the point. On the other hand you really don’t sound so desperate. I doubt if you truly want to find a solution to your problem. You are deviating from your original topic and having other unnecessary ones.
Well I just want to tell you what I felt. Take it or leave it.
Good luck in whatever you do.

[Xeon]

From DarkAvenger:


Look Xeon I don’t know if you are being sarcastic about your origin or not but if you have some relative staying abroad AND if you are not one of those slit eyed, straight haired, pig faced Chinese fellows, Then I’d suggest you to take a tourist VISA and go to the country of your relative as a tourist. Then from there just extend your VISA for a couple of months and then stop renewing it.


Hi there and good afternoon, DarkAvenger! :)
No no.....I'm not being sarcastic about my origin. I'm a Chinese-Singaporean and that's it. All that rot about being Africa-French-Australian descent was a total joke.

And no.....I don't have any relatives staying abroad, thus I can't use that method you suggested. I can only rely on my own method, which is why. In your case, it's much easier, cos' u already have some relative abroad, and that's darn easier, pal!

Regarding that part about slit-eyed, pig-faced Chinese fellows.......is this open revolt and defiant rascism??? :eek:
(Brad pal and good moderators of the Heavens.....high time to exercise your fingers and click the Warn/Ban button....)


You would be staying in that country as an illegal immigrant, but it is only for a few years. Then take a citizenship test there and you get your citizenship. You can then throw your Singapore citizenship in the sea or send it back to Singapore with compliments.
Because Honey I DID THE VERY SAME THING!!!!
And I am not lying here.


Now, that's cool for you! I wonder why you never got caught. I believe it's cos' your relatives kept their mouth shut? My! Whadda' lucky guy! :D


I was an Indian Singaporean born in Singapore and I migrated to Australia using this very same technique. I didn’t pay no $75,000 Bond, I dint have to keep going back to Singapore every now and then. I did get some reminders but I ignored it. I have lived in Australia for 7 years and I got my Australian citizenship in my 5th year of residence.
The whole of my mother's side migrated to Singapore in 1920 before Singapore became the Singapore it is now.

From what you say, it seems that Australia is easier to migrate to than the US, eh?
That's why more and more Singaporeans are migrating there, especially Perth.


There were the slums, the sewage, the flowing drain water when it rained etc... My ancestors came to Singapore before your Lee Quan Yew got his brilliant idea to clean up Singapore.
But unfortunately whatever you attribute to Singapore you have to admit that, that island depends on the US, the UK and the other Big Boys who actually make the world turn.
If the Big Boys fall, so will Singapore. It can't stand on its own. It even has to import fresh water from Malaysia. It has no resources whatsoever. You know what happened on September 11th. When the stock market crashed the first country to get kicked in the shins was Singapore. I am sure you would have learnt in the Singaporean geography and civics textbooks (I studied there till secondary 1 and I was in the express stream) that Singapore is nothing but a port, a place of trade. It gets its money by allowing ships to stop by and fill up. That’s all. After you finish reading this message just take a look at the Singapore stock exchange. Now I told you that my mother’s side migrated to Singapore in the early 19th century. Now there is hardly anyone left, why?
No1. They were wise and knew that if at sometime somewhere some country that was supplying Singapore says NO, we would all be in a soup. Take Malaysia for example, if they decide to stop supplying fresh water to Singapore you would have to drink rainwater.
No 2. They weren’t getting the recognition they deserved. My uncle had to study in Bendemeer Secondary school. He thought that he could get into Raffles secondary school the best in Singapore, which I’m sure you know about. Now he is doing his PhD in MIT. My aunt worked in Singapore for 29 years in the American express company but she was never given a promotion even once. Now she is working as a consultant in a very famous firm in Adelaide, Australia.
Take me, I was so **** sure I did well in my PSLE exams but I only got Macpherson secondary school. Now I am doing communications engineering & astrophysics in the University Of New South Wales, Australia (it’s the 2nd best in the world man after MIT. I worked so hard to get into it)


Now, I really admire your character. This is what we call "indifference". Really cool u're, even though I'm quite sure most of the other Codegurus here dislike people who're criticising their country of birth in public. :)

Singapore made a mistake somewhere along the way. It can’t identify talented people. And you seem to be just the case. I sure you could get into Raffles if they could identify your talent as a programmer. I am telling you man, Singapore is going down the drain, just count the number of people leaving that country every month. They are the talented people like you.

Now, thank you, DarkAvenger! But really, I'm no talent whatsoever, at least on the technical side. If I'm really a talent, I would be writing OSes like what Gabriel did! And I would be designing all kinda complex rocket science-like toys like Yves M! :)


If you were staying in any other country you wouldn’t have even started this thread.

I agree totally.

So my advice is get out of that country as soon as possible. If you are the type who want to patriotic and stuff, you can haul your *** for that country and do the NS. In that case you’re missing the point.

Yes, yes. I'm trying my best. I've sensed that the pace has quicken and I've even speed up the execution of my plans and such.
And as for being patriotic, I'm definetly not that sortta guy.......even though I wish I was.
But patriotism don't come for the asking. If you have it, you have it. If you don't, you don't.
And that's what applies to us both, DarkAvenger! U and me don't have any sense of patriotism.(I know it's really shameful......compared to others like the Americans and the Europeans......they've a strong sense of patriotism, most of 'em)

For the last time, I shall never get into NS!(for you folks, it's a term meaning Singapore-style conscription)
They say all the crap about NS making a man outta you, but really, it's the most wonderful lie in the world.
Millions of guys here have undergo NS, but I don't see them getting mentally strong and such. At the most, it's only the physical part that is enhanced. What rubbish. Period.

On the other hand you really don’t sound so desperate. I doubt if you truly want to find a solution to your problem. You are deviating from your original topic and having other unnecessary ones.


The truth is, DarkAvenger.....even if I'm totally desperate, I'm not gonna show it, right?! :)
More crucially, there's nothing much we can do on this thread just by discussing. I've already decided to tell that 5th lie mentioned earlier. ;)
For once, Galathaea is right. We live life only once on earth and if we don't what we dream, there never will be a better time.

Well I just want to tell you what I felt. Take it or leave it.
Good luck in whatever you do.

Yes, thank you. In fact, I'm totally please to meet someone who shares my sentiments exactly, even though u're more geared towards being anti-Singapore. :)
In any case, I do wish more Singaporeans have your mindset. But then, no place on earth is perfect. If most Singaporeans have your kinda mindset, I guess I don't even need to post this thread.

To conclude, DarkAvenger.....have a good day and see you. Good luck too. :):D

Great wishes,
Xeon.

[John E]

Hi Xeon,

Here's an amusing tale that might help with your problem. I promise you that this story is absolutely true!

Not far from where I live, there's a Greek guy aged about 26 years. He's been living in England for about 6 or 7 years now. He first came to England to avoid being conscripted into the Greek army (apparently, in Greece you can be conscripted right up to the age of 25 or even 30!) To be 'legitimate' he had to have some genuine reason for being here - so he enrolled on a tuition course to improve his English language. It cost him some money, but the language school gave him a letter saying that he was studying in England. That was enough to get him off the hook.

Of course, a language course can't last forever - so after that finished, he got himself a job as a security guard. Why a security guard? Because he gets a very impressive, flashy uniform. He had some pictures taken in his uniform and sent them back to Greece, saying that he was in some "secret intelligence unit" with the British military! Of course, he can't give any details away - it's all top secret - but here's a picture of him in his uniform as proof!!

The guy's got some guts but it's worked for him so far. The Greek authorities seem to think he's a 5 star General or something! He can even go back to Greece now without getting hassled about conscription.

Worth a try?....

[Xeon]

First, we have John_CZ, and now John E.
Anyway, nice night, John! :)

Ah well! That true tale was totally exciting and cool! But unfortunately, this kinda things doesn't even happen in Singapore.

U see, if I sense any chance of succeeding using this method(even if it's 1% outta 100%), I would have seriously consider it.
But the thing here is that there isn't a lot of possibilities, unlike in most Western and even Eastern countries.

In most Eastern countries, the laws are so seriously tied and binded to it's citizens and such.

For a start, over here in Singapore.....you need valid permission to leave the country once you're over 16.5 years old, and if I'm not wrong, it's not at all easy to get abroad to study some course if you're 16.5 years old and beyond.

So, my sole idea now is to give up my citizenship and leave, but of course, I need time, which is why.
If these guys refuse to even let me give up my citizenship, I will seriously consider serving those terrorist networks.

But then, even if I'm a terrorist, I promise I'll be a really good one, cos' as Lincoln has said before, "Whatever you're, be a good one."

That's why. :):D

But then, thanks a lot for that wonderful story, John! Just had my dinner, and need some relaxation. ;)
Good luck! :)
Xeon.

[thedarkavenger]

I'm sorry if I sounded racist, but I guess I was really angry with those Singaporean authorities when I left. I wonder why my anger hasn’t died down over the years. I guess it was because of the way they treated me when I was living there.
To tell the truth, I was kinda doubtful and hesitant when my dad told that we were gonna move to Australia. I had my taste of racism is Singapore and thought that it would be worse in Australia. If the oriental guys couldn’t respect each other I was doubtful if the occident would.
But I was surprised when I arrived here man. This place is the best. The guys here are really cool and kind. Of course there were a couple of jealous kids who dint like my getting thru to the University but apart from that life pretty fine here.
Of course there were times when I would think about the hawker stalls and sigh, the delicious food. If there is one thing Singapore is ever good at making,it is 'FOOD'. The lovely fish balls. I remember I used to go to the Toa Pa Yoh library and after a bit of reading I used to buy Goreng Pisang at the back.
But I guess you get them in carefully selected places in other countries.
And I wasn’t criticizing my place of birth. It so happened that my mom gave birth to me in Singapore rather than in India or any other place. So I was a doomed Singaporean citizen. Well all I want to tell you Xeon is that whether you do NS or not, you had better get out of the country. And once you get out of there its easy for you to ask for extension of leave or to extend your VISA until you get your citizenship in your new country.
Look even if you do get a job as a programmer there, you wouldn’t be able to rise up to the level you are capable of. Just like my uncles and aunts. But you have to get that citizenship as soon as possible or they might get suspicious and send inquirers after you. I don’t know why they didn’t do that for me. I kept ignoring their letters for 6 yrs and they didn’t send anybody.
They did inquire my aunt who was living there at that time, but she said that she has nothing to do with us, so the matter was laid to rest. Surprise Surprise!! You don’t know what a little good luck and strong faith can do to you. You have to have faith in what you are doing. Well I am glad that you understand me. Good luck again.

[lily311]

Originally posted by thedarkavenger
If the oriental guys couldn’t respect each other ...

I agree.
That's why I don't like Singapore.
But I don't think it's racism. Chinese-Singaporean also discriminate Chinese from China. I think it's better to call it utilitarianism.


Of course there were times when I would think about the hawker stalls and sigh, the delicious food. If there is one thing Singapore is ever good at making,it is 'FOOD'. The lovely fish balls...


Yes, I like fishball too.
And Rotti pratta, BlackPepper Crab.
But I don't think they make good Chinese food.
Eating in Singapore is a BIG problem to me.

BTW: I am very sorry about your opinion towards Chinese. I think what you know is only a very small portion of Chinese (in fact, Singaporean).

[Xeon]

From TheDarkAvenger:

I'm sorry if I sounded racist, but I guess I was really angry with those Singaporean authorities when I left. I wonder why my anger hasn’t died down over the years...
But I was surprised when I arrived here man. This place is the best. The guys here are really cool and kind. Of course there were a couple of jealous kids who dint like my getting thru to the University but apart from that life pretty fine here.


There! That's amazing! I mean, isn't there suppose to be more rascism in Western countries than in Eastern ones?
In Europe, especially, I think rascism in the worst here.
(no offence to anyone, please.....I say sorry to those who're offended in advanced)
But then, I've heard some good facts from Australia and it might be somewhat better than some countries, in terms of racism.


Of course there were times when I would think about the hawker stalls and sigh, the delicious food. If there is one thing Singapore is ever good at making,it is 'FOOD'. The lovely fish balls. I remember I used to go to the Toa Pa Yoh library and after a bit of reading I used to buy Goreng Pisang at the back.
But I guess you get them in carefully selected places in other countries.


Yes indeed......the food here is just too delicious and I wonder whether food from other countries are as good. I've tasted several kinda food from other Eastern countries(like Korea and Japan) and there're just not suitable for me.
But in Australia, I believe it's quite easy to get chicken chops and cutlets.


Well all I want to tell you Xeon is that whether you do NS or not, you had better get out of the country. And once you get out of there its easy for you to ask for extension of leave or to extend your VISA until you get your citizenship in your new country.


Yes, I know. I had wanted to get outta Singapore long ago and live with the animals in some very country-side part of the world.
But in my case, I'm already 18 years old. It might not be that easy for me to leave at this age, that's why.
I believe when you left Singapore, you're younger than 16, so that's much easier.


Look even if you do get a job as a programmer there, you wouldn’t be able to rise up to the level you are capable of.


Once again, I'm no talent, but I gotta admit that it's darn hard to get any promotions here. But then, it's hard to find any software firms in Singapore that develops Windows-based programs for the home user and such.(that's where my field of interest is)

Surprise Surprise!! You don’t know what a little good luck and strong faith can do to you. You have to have faith in what you are doing. Well I am glad that you understand me. Good luck again.

Yes, I know! A li'l bit of good luck can turn the dark skies to early morning. :) Good luck and see you, DarkAvenger!

From Lily:

I agree.
That's why I don't like Singapore.
But I don't think it's racism. Chinese-Singaporean also discriminate Chinese from China. I think it's better to call it utilitarianism


My! Tough English! Utilita.....what???!! Cool!
I guess the reason why most Singaporean-Chinese kinda discriminate against mainland Chinese is that they're not used to seeing them.

For example, me.
I was aboard this bus when 3 mainland Chinese boarded the bus and I couldn't help looking at them.
Really, I'm not discriminating against them whatsoever.

It is just that I'm curious about them, cos' it's not very common for the average Singaporean-Chinese to mingle with a Chinese from the mainland.

In fact, I had say it's more common to meet Westerners here, which is why.

Anway, maybe you would accept my sincere apologies on behalf of Chinese Singaporeans. :):D

Thank you, guys.
Xeon.

[lily311]

Originally posted by Xeon
I guess the reason why most Singaporean-Chinese kinda discriminate against mainland Chinese is that they're not used to seeing them.

In fact, I had say it's more common to meet Westerners here, which is why.


Definitely not!
If only you have read Chinese newspaper or watched Chinese TV Channel often, you'll understand what I mean.
I don't want to mention those facts here. Actually, I am extremely angry at that time.:mad: :mad: :mad:


Anway, maybe you would accept my sincere apologies on behalf of Chinese Singaporeans. :):D

Some of your fellow Singaporeans may become crazy seeing these words. They would say: How can you represent all the Singaporean to say such words? It's those persons' fault. Not mine. They said so when your minister made apology.:mad:

[lily311]

Originally posted by Xeon
For example, me.
I was aboard this bus when 3 mainland Chinese boarded the bus and I couldn't help looking at them.


No, I never feel angry about such things.
I'll be pleased if you do this to me.
If nobody looks at me when I am walking in the street and dressed up, It's really a unbearable tragedy.:cool: :D


Really, I'm not discriminating against them whatsoever.


Relax.
Surely I believe you are not.
I am just talking about a very small amount of people. (According to my observation, most of them are store keeper and alikes. Hope this is not another kind of discrimination :p :p )

And also please accept my apology if any of my words make you feel uneasy or uncomfortable.:) I didn't mean that.:p

[lily311]

Originally posted by Xeon
My! Tough English! Utilita.....what???!! Cool!

I'd like to change it to snobism now.:cool:

[Elrond]

ginally posted by Xeon
I guess the reason why most Singaporean-Chinese kinda discriminate against mainland Chinese is that they're not used to seeing them.
In fact, I had say it's more common to meet Westerners here, which is why.
Originally posted by lily311
Definitely not!
If only you have read Chinese newspaper or watched Chinese TV Channel often, you'll understand what I mean.
I don't want to mention those facts here. Actually, I am extremely angry at that time.


I would say that racism is pretty high almost every where. The way it shows can be different from one country to another, but it's pretty high (much too high) in most places in the world.

I know about it in France and surrounding coutries, and there's a real problem. On the other hand, it may not be as bad as it seems. I've heard what they say about it on other countries, and there's a lot they don't know that make it seems worse than it is.

I also heard and read the way foreigners who try to work in Japan are look on. It's not exactly pleasant.

Arabian coutries usually don't like European people too much.

There's a lot of racism against white people in Africa (may be they had good reasons for it, but finally they're as bad as white people).

And I'd say it's the same almost every where.

In Ireland where I am, it's one of the places I heard about where there is the less racism, probably because until recently, they had almost no foreign people. Irish where going outside of Ireland, but no one were coming here, as it was a poor country.

At the same time, there's a lot of places where the racism is not as bad as it seems, but as the acts of racism are bad, everyone hear about them, while no one hear about all the non racist people. Even if there are too much, far from every one is racist in France. And it's the same in most places.



Xeon:
I'm not sure how you want to give up your citizenship without moving first to another country. You will hardly find any country willing to give someone like you (who seems to have nothing special to offer) citizenship while your are stil in Singapore. And I don't think any kinda lawyer will be able to change that.

[Xeon]

Now, Lily.......you're welcomed! :):)

And regarding racism, Elrond.....I just have a feeling that racism is quite bad in Europe. Even the US seems to be better, in fact.
I've also read up news articles about how white cops beat the crap(police brutality) on black offenders and such! :eek:

The other thing is regarding rascism against white folks in Africa. 1 year ago, in Rwanda and Zambaiwe(wrong spelling.......but remember old Robert Mugabe??!!), I think......there's a civil war between whites and blacks, and the black actually made life tough for the whites.(outnumbered)

Really, these guys really gotta escape and flee from Mugabe. Sigh!


From Elrond:
I'm not sure how you want to give up your citizenship without moving first to another country. You will hardly find any country willing to give someone like you (who seems to have nothing special to offer) citizenship while your are stil in Singapore. And I don't think any kinda lawyer will be able to change that.


Relax, Elrond pal! I've thought of this long ago!(about 1.5 years ago)
Don't worry......it's part of my plans.
I know that of course, I've nothing special to offer, but......like I've said before, time is my greatest ally and enemy. That's why.

In my case, with time.......anything is possible. So, the main thing now is to get a lawyer with all my saved money and delay for more time. I have my ways, that's why. :)

Thank you anyway, Elrond. I really like direct guys like you. :)
Xeon.

[Elrond]

Originally posted by Xeon
And regarding racism, Elrond.....I just have a feeling that racism is quite bad in Europe. Even the US seems to be better, in fact.
I've also read up news articles about how white cops beat the crap(police brutality) on black offenders and such! :eek:


About that there's been a few bad beating in the US as well. And as I said, the way we show up racism can vary from one outry to another.

With all the problems in Africa (mainly Zimbabwe) at the moment, black who don't like white show it by killing them. It's not as violent in Europe as thing are much more controlled now.

And about cops beating black offenders, not every cop beat every black offender he catches, FAR from that. The problem is always a difficult one. For the moment, the people the more likely to make a big terrorist attack in Europe or in the US are people for Bin Laden. Not all, but most of them are muslim fundamentalists arabian type. The fact that the police controls more the people of this type can be seen as racism, or as targeting the more likely terrorists. At the end of the day, it will be probably both of them, depending on the cops.

But I don't think it's much worse than in the US.

One of the reason the picture is that bad is probably because of the last presidential elections in France, one of the candidates being a highly racist man. But he did not arrived here just because of these idea. He was even more quiet about them than usually, and it's because of a lot of other reasons than he reached the second stage.

I still agree that therre is far too much racism in France, but the picture given to the outside is probably much worse than the reality is.

And I still don't really see how a lawyer can help you change citizenship. Did you heard about anyone changing citizenship just by paying money to a lawyer (and may be a few more people afterwards)? Or do you just hope it is possible?

[galathaea]

In Ireland where I am, it's one of the places I heard about where there is the less racism, probably because until recently, they had almost no foreign people.


Reminds me of a passage from Joyce's Ulysses. It went something like:

Q: Do you know why Ireland never persecuted the Jews?
A: We never let them in...

[Xeon]

From Elrond:
With all the problems in Africa (mainly Zimbabwe) at the moment, black who don't like white show it by killing them. It's not as violent in Europe as thing are much more controlled now.


Yes, that's true. There were very horrible killings back then.
The white farmers were being driven outta their farms.

Really, Mugabe pal should use more peaceful methods even if he wanna do that. That has to be a more peaceful way.


One of the reason the picture is that bad is probably because of the last presidential elections in France, one of the candidates being a highly racist man. But he did not arrived here just because of these idea. He was even more quiet about them than usually, and it's because of a lot of other reasons than he reached the second stage.


Yes yes......I heard of this guy although I forgot his name.
He was challenging that French prime minister called Jacques Chirac, I think.
And this guy is from the far-right(or far-left) part, if I remembered correctly. But still, he lost out in the end. :)


And I still don't really see how a lawyer can help you change citizenship. Did you heard about anyone changing citizenship just by paying money to a lawyer (and may be a few more people afterwards)? Or do you just hope it is possible?


Now, now......a lawyer will not be able to help me change citizenship, but he or she will be able to think of much more powerful and legal methods to give excuses to delay conscription and obtain the citizenship.

It's something like trying to see in darkness with a bright torch.
Once a way has been found, all I gotta do is to delay for time and work towards my goal of obtaining the citizenship.

It wouldn't be easy, but with an immigration lawyer, things really changed. ;)

[scarab_cn]

Hai,xeon,how about the matter?
Gook luck:D

[Xeon]

Hi there Scarab! Well, everything's fine. :)
I don't think it's too hard to postpone the attachment programme, cos' I just had another new weapon in case my 5th idea fail :

-telling the teacher that I don't wanna fail my major multimedia project and that if I go for the attachment programme, my project grades will be seriously affected.

Nice trick!
Nice day too, Scarab!!! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Platinum Plus]

Xeon, remember teachers are always smarter :o :o :o

They have been there and done that and have seen all the tricks in the book. As long as you pull a trick from the book, they've seen it and are 2 steps ahead ! So what ever you do, do not go by the book. After all most teachers write these books :(

Now for the grand plan Xeon .... commit a crime and go to jail. There you will spend time and get time to do your projects inbetween the usual heavy labor and caning. No conscription for jailbirds and that's it ....

Gees ... am I not brilliant :D:D:D

[Xeon]

Thanks a lot for your advice, Platinum!

Anyway, seriously.......I'm planning to start a war next Wednesday, 27th November 2002.
This will be the day where I'm gonna tell the teacher I'm not going for any attachment programmes whatsoever, depending on the situation.(maybe)

I'll draft and prepare a complete plan and speech and post it here somewhere around next Monday.(25th November 2002)

Then, maybe you folks can read and edit the plans and spot and correct any potential loopholes.

Thanks a lot. :)
Xeon.

[Simon666]

Originally posted by Xeon
Then, maybe you folks can read and edit the plans and spot and correct any potential loopholes.Maybe we could indeed correct those, but we'll never be able to fix the loophole inside your brain. :rolleyes:

[Platinum Plus]

Hi Xeon. Nice and warm warmer you have there (http://www.codeguru-xeon.150m.com/) :cool:

[Xeon]

From Simon666:

Maybe we could indeed correct those, but we'll never be able to fix the loophole inside your brain.


Drats, Simon! I don't care what you do, but please suck up to me. Thanks.
Anyway, I'm gonna tell me teacher that I'm not going for the attachment programme, and if I survive that war, IO'll post the outcome here.
Now, folks......gimme all your wishes and such! For our happiness! :cool:

From Platinum Plus:

Hi Xeon. Nice and warm warmer you have there


And thank you, Platinum Plus! :):D

[galathaea]

Good luck, Xeon. I wish you well.

[Xeon]

Thanks a lot, Galathaea! :):):D:)

[scarab_cn]

Originally posted by Xeon
Thanks a lot for your advice, Platinum!

Anyway, seriously.......I'm planning to start a war next Wednesday, 27th November 2002.
This will be the day where I'm gonna tell the teacher I'm not going for any attachment programmes whatsoever, depending on the situation.(maybe)

I'll draft and prepare a complete plan and speech and post it here somewhere around next Monday.(25th November 2002)

Then, maybe you folks can read and edit the plans and spot and correct any potential loopholes.

Thanks a lot. :)
Xeon.

Hai,Xeon pal:
Now is 27th November 2002 here:).
How are you?Are you OK?
Could you be thrown into prison for your colliding the law?:D :D

[scarab_cn]

I changed my signature.haha:p

[Xeon]

Hi there Scarab! :)
Now, Scarab's new signature rocks! All of us here really should bear his signature in mind.

And now! For the outcome of today's battle : the fight I had with the teacher.

Before I went to sort it out with her, I donned on full armour and got my joust and shield ready. Then, I faced the my foe.

First, I went up to her and told her I don't wanna go for the attachment programme cos' I'm quitting school in the next few months. She was totally shocked! And we proceeded to have a long long talk.

How powerful the teacher is! Instead of using the most fearsome flames to engulf me, she used sweet words.......those of an angel's! I was quickly subdued, and my strategies to put off the attachment programme failed.

But at that moment, I reminded myself that I must gain at least some success or I will not return home! Thus, I launched my second plan and told her straight that I'm under too much stress and I wish to delay the attachment thingy.

This works! But it was NOT total success at one go, though.
She says she's gonna bring this matter to the in-charge and told me she would help me and see how things go.

So, although I succeed 100%, chances are that I'm GOING to succeed 100% soon. I'm positive about the results.

The bad part is that I should have told her that I wanna delay the attachment programme and not some crap that wasted all my time!(Infinite Preaching and Counselling!:D)

That's the outcome. If the in-charge refuses to believe me, I'm going to see him and be an actor by having a somewhat stressed and cry-like face. :cool:

The man! Cheerio! :):):D

[Xeon]

Now! The results are out : I have to go after all.

Well, that beast phone me today, and told me to go tomorrow.
And guess what? I actually told IT that I've a software to work on : the truth for the first time.

And as expected, she didn't give a **** to it. Never mind, then.
And IT threaten me with my parents! So, to avoid that, I really gotta go. There's around 5.5 - 6 weeks left, that's why.

So, I probably won't be around that often in the next 6 weeks or so, but I will still post something these 6 weeks to live up to my name! :)
And the software won't be released that soon. Probably after March 2003 and such.

See you, guys! :)
Xeon.(Simon....maybe if you know of some nuclear arms etc., u can share the info with me. I'm gonna *i** these beasts)

[CBasicNet]

I guess nobody here will miss your regular 'gurls' posts, except for Simon and Solar; They need at least a few doses of 'these' a day to prevent uncontrollable spasms; they grow too used reading 'them'.;) :p :D :D :D

[Simon666]

Originally posted by CBasicNet
I guess nobody here will miss your regular 'gurls' posts, except for Simon and Solar; They need at least a few doses of 'these' a day to prevent uncontrollable spasms; they grow too used reading 'them'.;) :p :D :D :D
You 'use' these "'" a bit 'too' much now don't you? :p Don't get cocky. I liked it better before I had to continuously read Xeon's posts.

[CBasicNet]

Originally posted by CBasicNet
I guess nobody here will miss your regular 'gurls' posts, except for Simon and Solar; They need at least a few doses of 'these' a day to prevent uncontrollable spasms; they grow too used reading 'them'.;) :p :D :D :D

Actually franking speaking, I'm very sick of Xeon's kind of humor about gurls.

I wonder why he doesn't get sick of it himself.

[Simon666]

Originally posted by CBasicNet
Actually franking speaking, I'm very sick of Xeon's kind of humor about gurls. I wonder why he doesn't get sick of it himself.
He doesn't get sick of himself, he is sick.

[CBasicNet]

Originally posted by Simon666

He doesn't get sick of himself, he is sick.

Even his ex-boss Yves is put off by them that he has stopped coming here.:D

[Xeon]

Darn! U 2 have finally shown your true colors!!!!! :mad: :mad: :)
Aye~! And no no.....I dunno what's so boring about gurls.

Never mind, anyway. But I just feel gurls are quite different from boys, that's why. Maybe because I'm such an emotional, sensitive and observant guy. That explains why I get so aroused by them.
And no......for the last time, I'm not sick! U're sick, Simon! :p:p:p::D

[Simon666]

Originally posted by Xeon
Darn! U 2 have finally shown your true colors!!!!!
What are you rambling about? I told you from the start on all your nagging about girls was annoying. Don't know about CBasicNet.
Originally posted by Xeon
Aye~! And no no.....I dunno what's so boring about gurls.
It is not girls who are boring, it is you continuously going on about them.
Originally posted by Xeon
Never mind, anyway. But I just feel gurls are quite different from boys, that's why.
Well duh. :rolleyes: Hadn't noticed yet. :p
Originally posted by Xeon
Maybe because I'm such an emotional, sensitive and observant guy.
Read emotionally disturbed, oversensitive and observant (I don't even want to know what you observe all the time you sicko) guy.
Originally posted by Xeon
That explains why I get so aroused by them.
And no......for the last time, I'm not sick!
The first line does not confirm but contradict the second line. :rolleyes:

[Xeon]

From Simon:

What are you rambling about? I told you from the start on all your nagging about girls was annoying. Don't know about CBasicNet.


What do u know, Sonny! This is also to test which one of you male folks are normal! :o:D


It is not girls who are boring, it is you continuously going on about them.


Read above.


Read emotionally disturbed, oversensitive and observant (I don't even want to know what you observe all the time you sicko) guy.


I could report to Brad for these kinda nasty name-callings, buster.
But I shall forgive you for the 5th time.
Maybe I've been too nice to you lately, Simon! Trying to start a revolt again, eh?
Since you don't like soft and nice Xeon who trys to be kind with you, I'm gonna give you the tough and nasty treatment then.:o

[Simon666]

Originally posted by Xeon
I could report to Brad for these kinda nasty name-callings, buster.
I think it is possible he also believes continuously mentioning girls is either sick or cause by some form of emotional disturbance. Go ahead.
Originally posted by Xeon
But I shall forgive you for the 5th time. Maybe I've been too nice to you lately, Simon! Trying to start a revolt again, eh?
I think we have been very nice not to report many of your posts as I remember you have been requested before (http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=541113&highlight=girls#post541113) not to post about girls in the VC forum.

[Xeon]

From Simon:

I think we have been very nice not to report many of your posts as I remember you have been requested before not to post about girls in the VC forum.

Simon.666.
Something has been confirmed : YOU are a stalker. The Master of all Stalkers. YOU still have that link???!!! Either you're too obessed with me that you keep track of each and every of single posts and store them in an Access database so that you can ogle at them when the drive arrive, or you're sick.

If this is not gross and disgusting and twisted and perverted and sick, what is it? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Simon666]

Originally posted by Xeon
YOU still have that link???!!!

What is gross, disgusting, twisted, perverted and sick about remembering you've been requested that and actively using the 'Search' feature on this forum? :rolleyes: :confused:

[Gabriel Fleseriu]

Xeon,

Simon has a good point, you know... Even if noone reported you I have seen that posts in the VC++ forum. The fact that I did not say anything is probably due to the Christmas mood I was in :). However, let me strass this out again: no 'gurls' and 'chicken chop' in VC++, ok?

[Xeon]

From Simon:

What is gross, disgusting, twisted, perverted and sick about remembering you've been requested that and actively using the 'Search' feature on this forum?

Nothing is wrong. But I'm shocked to know that you still have the exact link. Did you search for hours just to find that??!! U're X-treme! :eek:

Leave me alone, u freak! :eek::D

From Gabriel:

Xeon,
Simon has a good point, you know... Even if noone reported you I have seen that posts in the VC++ forum. The fact that I did not say anything is probably due to the Christmas mood I was in . However, let me strass this out again: no 'gurls' and 'chicken chop' in VC++, ok?


Aye, Gabriel! How have you been! Relax! :)
The truth is : u really should stop being a SuperModerator. It is unhealthy and makes you heaty and sick easily. In the end, although you get more ego, you're giving money to the doctor and you're compromising on your health. :):):cool::)

[Simon666]

Originally posted by Xeon
Did you search for hours just to find that??!! U're X-treme! :eek:
Leave me alone, u freak! :eek::D
Small tip : press 'Search' on this forum, search by user name 'Brad Jones' and search by keyword 'girls'. Results: two hits (http://www.codeguru.com/forum/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=288934&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending). I tried twice : first time using 'gurls'. Estimated amount of time: < 1 minute.

By the way Xeon, I liked every single one of your avatars much better than that awful, horrible Avril Lavigne. She's as fake as the rest though she pretends not to be and likes an anarchist image, crashing a mall and cars is NOT cool unless you're a frustrated teenager which she is clearly not making much more money than is good for her, and she looks way older than she is because of that stupid make-up and even worse face. And above all she is also a dwarf. Maybe one of the reasons why you like her? :D

[Xeon]

From Simon:

Small tip : press 'Search' on this forum, search by user name 'Brad Jones' and search by keyword 'girls'. Results: two hits. I tried twice : first time using 'gurls'. Estimated amount of time: < 1 minute.


Nice tip! The Search and Link Expert, eh? :ccol:


By the way Xeon, I liked every single one of your avatars much better than that awful, horrible Avril Lavigne. She's as fake as the rest though she pretends not to be and likes an anarchist image, crashing a mall and cars is NOT cool unless you're a frustrated teenager which she is clearly not making much more money than is good for her, and she looks way older than she is because of that stupid make-up and even worse face. And above all she is also a dwarf. Maybe one of the reasons why you like her?


Nay, Simon pal! :p
Avril is the best female star I ever know! This is the first darn time I ever pay attention to any female star/celebrity. The truth is : to me, Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera all look so fake and common to me. And anarchist? I though you love devilish stuff like Satan and such?! :eek:
This is news to me! :D

And no...crashing malls and cars ain't cool, but for her, it's really hot. :D
As for her face, what do u know! That's her trademark! The best thing I love about her is the face and hair, especially those dark eye-shades, which really catch my attention and turns me on. :cool:

As for her being a dwarf, that's really cool! I dunno her height and I've never seen her in real life, but I can tell from the photos(half-body) that she's short.
I mean, folks with a face like hers is better looking and more suitable when they're short than tall. For example, me.
I always feel that tall gurls are my moms when I talk to them, for some reason.(no no.....gurls.....relax)

My Poem:

I dunno about her music and I don't care,
The pretty face that turns me on is all that matters.
The sun that shines on the barn,
is like the cockerel that crows in delight.

My! Whadda' man I am! And no...the poem is priceless. No no.....I wouldn't sell it even for US$1000 billion. :cool:

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by Xeon
Nice tip! The Search and Link Expert, eh? :ccol:

Yep, that's Simon!
Originally posted by Xeon
the poem is priceless. No no.....I wouldn't sell it even for US$1000 billion. :cool:
But if the offer were to arise...

[Xeon]

From Solar:

But if the offer were to arise...


No! Even if you gimme 10 OmniBetaverses, I wouldn't even consider. It's too sweet and darn romantic! :):):):):)

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by Xeon
No! Even if you gimme 10 OmniBetaverses, I wouldn't even consider. It's too sweet and darn romantic! :):):):):)
But.. But.... But.... the onmibetaverse is the largest possible structure! You can't have more than one of them, you're talking crazy talk! The poem has made you go mad. Forget it, I wouldn't take it if you offered it to me with US$1 000 000 000 000.

[Xeon]

Rubbish, Solar! :p
I'm gonna conquer the rest of the OmniBetaVerses(there's 10 altogether) to show you. :p:p:p:p:p:p

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by Xeon
Rubbish, Solar! :p
I'm gonna conquer the rest of the OmniBetaVerses(there's 10 altogether) to show you. :p:p:p:p:p:p
So now you're not content with what you were given before! Give a man an inch and he'll take a yard. Anyway, I assure that there is only one. You're probably thinking of the omnialphaverses, of which there are 15.

[Xeon]

From Solar:

So now you're not content with what you were given before! Give a man an inch and he'll take a yard. Anyway, I assure that there is only one. You're probably thinking of the omnialphaverses, of which there are 15.


Yes, the OmniAlphaverse. That must be the One I'm seeking all my life. :D:D:D:D:D:D

[Simon666]

Originally mentioned by Xeon
Endless crazy stuff about OmniAlpha/Betaverses.
Originally mentioned by solarflare
Endless crazy stuff about OmniAlpha/Betaverses.
Originally mentioned by Ozzy Osbourne
I love you all. I love you more than life itself, but you're all f*cking mad!

[Xeon]

Stop trying to sow discord between us, Simon! :D:p:p:p:p:p:p

[SolarFlare]

Originally posted by Simon666
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally mentioned by Ozzy Osbourne
I love you all. I love you more than life itself, but you're all f*cking mad!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps a little incentive for when I conquer it all would calm you down? :D;):rolleyes: