Mobile Application programming

[Rohit Kukreti]

:confused: Hi,
I'm vc++ developer. But, i have programmed only in MFC. But now i wanna move to mobile Application programming. Can anyone tell me what all basic things i require(s/w's and h/w's)? I had posted a question in this forum some times back abt mobile phone programming, somebody suggested that i shoulod look into bluetooth technology. But, i don't wanna move out of VC++. So, can someone suggest me something related to VC++ and also tutorials abt the subject ? Also, 'embedded visual tools 3.0' by Microsoft is only for embedded, Pocket PC or handhelds?
Pls help me!!:(

[kandukondein]

Please refer
http://www.cewindows.net
The site gives u most of the information required in developing app for PPC.
Hope that would be helpful to u.
Regards
Kandukondein

[Rohit Kukreti]

Hi kandukondein,

I looked at the site. Thanx. But i just don't want windows ce and smart phones. Do u know any site which gives me info abt programming mobile application for any cell phone.

bye,
Rohit

[scott meyer]

I'm a C++ guy too, so this was a hard decision for me to make, but if you want to be able to use what you code on the widest variety of hardware, you need to code in Java using J2ME.

More and more phones are incorporating the ability to execute Java MIDlets, so you should really develop that type of app.

Personally, I think Java and the developer tools have a way to go to reach the maturity level of C++, (for one, I can't believe there's no preprocessor in Java) but you can do it and the apps can be very functional.

I developed one which allows users to mimic our desktop-based work order and schedulilng system on their phones, and synch between them.

Check out some of the MIDlet developer sites, you should get enough info to make an informed decision.:)

[Rohit Kukreti]

Hi Scott,

Thanx for your response. I was also anticipating this thing coz i looked a lot at the net and couldn't find anything significant for VC++. So anyways thanx for ur reply. Do u know good sites which provide good tutorials for the same or any good books?

bye,
Rohit

[scott meyer]

http://forum.java.sun.com/wireless/

www.midlet.org

If you know Java, it'll be pretty easy. I use Sun's Forte (which is written in Java so it's sssslllllooooowwwww, but it does work. Havent' tried JBuilder but I hear it's better.

You'll need to download and install Sun's Wireless Toolkit, it gives you support for J2ME and includes emulators to run your MIDlet's on.

[Rohit Kukreti]

Hi Scott,

Thanx for ur reply. Ok i understand that v can program applications for wireless devices using J2ME but it wud be same like java whereby i can only program applications. But, if i want to program a systems application sort of systems programming then how to go abt it? I believe i can't do it with J2ME, right? Then what shud i do? e.g. If i want to program a mobile phone locker/unlocker s/w whereby i have to deal with the internal sys of the phones, then how to go abt?
I think u won't mind me asking u questions continuously coz i think ur the only one replying and have gone thru the same pain. And also u have some more experience than me.

bye,
Rohit

[scott meyer]

Here's the deal. Your Java app(s) will run when and only when you start them by switching into Java app mode and picking an application to run. While you are running it, you can pause the app and switch to phone, email, or other things the phone can do. Later, you can go back to Java mode and pick up your app where it left off (it actually freezes it in mid-execution). (Note, you can get a message just before the app freezes so you can close any open communication links or record stores).

If you are running a Java app and someone calls you, your app freezes and the phone switches back to phone mode.

There is no way you can "control" the phone- the underlying OS is ALWAYS in charge.

At least on Nextel phones, there's no bridge between the Java box and the phone's other features, like the phone number list or built-in address book, schedule, etc.

But those things are/may be gradually added if enough people want them and pursue the manufacturers.

[Rohit Kukreti]

Thanx Scott for ur help. But, i feel there must be some way whereby people must be controlling the phones.... may be assembly language. I'm trying to figure that out. If i get some way i would surely let u know.
Thanx anyways!!!
Bye,
Rohit

[scott meyer]

Just like regular Java apps run in a "sandbox", Java MIDlet's run in a "sandbox" on the phone.... ain't no way you're gonna be able to take control away from the OS on the phone.

What are you trying to do, anyway? You can probably do whatever you need to do using the Java apps.

[booogt]

i find that hard to believe if you have a data connector and program the asm to add itself to the menu or something to that nature, then i believe it could be done, however I think that you will have a fun time trying to find the asm for every single phone, because if the processor of the phone isn't made by one generic company then the asm code could be different/interpreted different. Also, if you are gonna try programming assembler do it on your PC first. Save you the trouble of explaining what you were doing when your phone crashed to the company...and them telling you you voided the warranty. I say get linux and use the gcc compiler to run your assembler...if this sounds like it could work, and you have found phone asm ref.'s email me please i'd like to do some similar work....

campbelln@hartwick.edu


thanks

- nc

[Rohit Kukreti]

Hi Booogt :D,

I think u misread me. I did not say it could be done using asm, i just said there is a possibility coz it is a known fact that people control mobile phone h/w. So, i think asm is apossibility ans so i c++ or c. And i dont know anything abt asm. I'll tell u why i said this thing coz there r s/w which do control the h/w. U can get a few at astalavista.com. There r universal s/w which work on every phones, but, u need EEPROM programmer with them. I'm telling u all these things coz one of my friend works in a phone co. here in India. So, if there is a possibility then why not try it? What do u say buddy??

bye,
Rohit
P.S. waiting for ur reply

[booogt]

I definately agree, go for it, y would you need EEPROM to reprogram the rom?
that sounds different to me, i would think you would just need prom but i don't know alot of the specs about cell phone hardware...i definately think it would be sweet to reprogram it. And yes C and ASM go hand in hand in most systems i think
you may also be able to use java to be the boot and then run the other commands once the java prog is run...
i have checked astalavista and haven't found much for my phone...
i have a motorola v60t and have been looking for protocol specific stuff, and hardware specific stuff but haven';t found a lot...
keep in touch my email is
campbelln@hartwick.edu
and i'll def. check stuff out
also i do know a chunk of ASM if you need help with it at some point.

let me know!

- nc

[Rohit Kukreti]

Hi booogt,
That was really nice of u :). And i wud surely be in touch with u thru emails and if get to know something more abt it i wud surely tell u :D.

[scott meyer]

Have you guys actually DONE any MIDlet programming?

Look around, you'll find lots of people asking how to "control" the phone and it's underlying OS.

And every reply you'll hear, including those from Motorola, Nextel, ad nauseum, is the same: you CAN'T take control of the phone!

There are some mfrs who will allow some access to some of the phone features (like the phone book) but generally any code you can load into the machine is locked inside a box.

Besides, IMHO there is no reason to "control" the phone.... any legitimate business or personal use software can work just fine within the Java apps limitations.

[booogt]

Originally posted by scott meyer
Have you guys actually DONE any MIDlet programming?



MIDlet programming or not it's java, won't change much if at all...yay will take me a day to figure out so there is no point in insinuating that this will be difficult....plus if i were to try and control the phone it would be a low level language not Java, you need the interp which is WHY you can't control the phone through java, you have to load the interp to the phone and have that run before the java program loads into the phone....


Look around, you'll find lots of people asking how to "control" the phone and it's underlying OS.

And every reply you'll hear, including those from Motorola, Nextel, ad nauseum, is the same: you CAN'T take control of the phone!

There are some mfrs who will allow some access to some of the phone features (like the phone book) but generally any code you can load into the machine is locked inside a box.


it is most certainly possible, don't say can't....be a good programmer and never accept can't!
The only limitations would be the hardware...ie the ROM chips, proc...etc
Anything can be done within a computer system....within reason but obviously one could program the phone, it's a mini-handheld pc...has diff features but yea it's essentially a pc and can be rewritten...listen to yourself! The only problem is finding the specific instructs for the processor of the phone.


Besides, IMHO there is no reason to "control" the phone.... any legitimate business or personal use software can work just fine within the Java apps limitations.

just because the java apps work fine for normal use, I want to add security features that my phone doesn't have or i want to customize my phone in certain ways, and if what you are saying is right then if i have a security feature running and i get a phone call whoop there goes the security...i need the low level instructs to interupt that and make it seem as if the phone was off....plus it is not a matter of normal use, it's just a fact of can....well I'm bored so let me try it...

i definately believe that you could offer much to this idea and i would like your help but you can't be like the companies that want to limit information. Explore your limits, test your boundaries. You will find that information is cheap if you look for it and you will find that you will learn much more if you attempt to do things out of the norm and against what others say, rather than conform to the misconception that things are not possible.

Hope this clears up the confusion about why i am going to work on this...it's because, quite simply, I want to! and it intreages(sp) me as well.

Good day!

- nc