9hr work day - is it normal ?

[Deer]

We have 9 hours working time per day. Our boss say: "It is normal for a software business in USA, they works 10-12 hours". Is it true ????

[Geert Arys]

Hi,

In most countries, there are laws against working more than 8 hrs per day (40 hr week). In Belgium, most industries don't work more than 7u36 per day (38 hr week). It is, however, "custom" that workers show thay are "loyal" and work longer. It is illegal, but socially acceptable.

Including SW. However, given the "high" wages in SW, they are considered even more "normal".

However, more and more protest is rising against this "work more" (it is even proven basically counterproductive). Around 10,000 Japanese workers per year are estimated to drop suddenly dead from overwork (doing 12 hrs+ per day) - this is no joke.

If you don't like that mentality, switch jobs and to a company which respects that people want a life. I work to live, not the other way around. I've switched to the public sector (taking a $10000 paycut) to have *plenty* of time for my family and a pretty relaxed work place, where I can produce some quality, plus, as a big bonus, do a social useful job instead of a economic useful job.

I don't want to be cursed with a lucrative employment, you see. :-) But it takes some courage, that's true.

Regards,
Geert Arys

[Deer]

Thank you for reply. It was very useful for me.

[Walter Sullivan]

10-12 hour days is quite common in certain sectors of software development in the US.

In the dotcom world, its more or less expected. Burnout is high after a couple of years however.

At Microsoft, its relatively common, I rarely get out of here under 10 hours a day. However, at Microsoft its not expected or demanded. Its dictated more by your individual drive, family commitments, etc. I don't have kids, an understanding wife (who often works more than me) and I love my job so its not really a burden.

If I had kids, or working longer hours really hurt my family in other ways I wouldn't do it and it would be acceptable.

A friend of mine writes software at a bank and he never works more than 8 hours a day.

You can't make a generalization about the US developers in my opinion.

Walter

Walter Sullivan
Lead Program Manager, ATL/MFC

[Deer]

Thank you, Walter, for the reply.

I am group manager also and love my job too and work 9-10 hours a day (sometime I use dinner time for a work)and sometime we do emergency job at nights, and I'm ready to do it, but not an every day of working week !
As I understand, you work on one's own initiative and company pays you for a good job, but not for a time what you sit on working place. In our company we have strong shedule policy and MUST work 9 hours a day (+ 1hr for dinner break = 10hr), any lateness or absence are punishable. I love my job, but sometime I have more, sometime less job and I can't understand: why I must sit and look at the display, if all my work is done and I have wish to go to home to my beloved.

Main question:
Does company force you to work 10 hours or encourage to do it ?

Best regards,
Andrew
UI team leader.

[THY02K]

my regular hour , as an assistant engineering manager, was 08:00-23:00. The company has no respect for human rights and this is in Asia where every boss expects u to be hard working. And hard working means although it says on the contract that u should be getting off at 17:30, u're suppose to live,eat,and spend most of yr life in the company. And to show yr LOYALTY/COMMITMENT! For a lot of us, job is a job and we need a life too. Besides, we need time to read up and stay abreast with the world.... And the worst is that this is part of the culture! It seems US is jsut like most asians countries with respect to working hour. And this fuels upon itself coz one employee do that, other follows. It's all about competition and culture. A vicious cycle. I can see Industrial Revolution is making a comeback! Only this time, we're rewarded with a "CAREER" which can barely afford inflating cost of home and retirement.

[alanr]

I am here in the USA working and I have worked for IT companies in the UK and Brazil as well as the Federal govt. I am a senior developer, I spend usually around 8 to 8.5 hours here per day. However, when a dead-line gets close that can jump up significantly. However, I won't stay here more than 10 hours. I told my supervisor when I was hired that I have a standing appointment with my wife everyday a 5:00pm. If it is required that I work more than that, I would happily come in at 5:30am or 6:00. The bottom line is this: "You will do as much as you let other people make you do..." I am afraid that many of our counterparts in former soviet states and some developing countries, Kar Marx's pathetic jargon would now be useful.... "Workers of the world unite! Throw down your tools, you have nothing to lose but your chains....."


alanr
"happy capitalist"

[argo]

Btw, I was wondering if computer companies will pay you for overtime?

Joe Rossini

[Paul McKenzie]

Where I have worked, I've had to create confidence in the employer that I can get all the work done very quickly. This way, I can put in a 7 hour day, or come it at 10:30 or 11:00 AM.

This takes about a year or so to build this confidence between myself, my work and my employer, but maybe I was lucky (my last two positions gave me a lot of free time, given that they saw I did an excellent job).

Of course, if there is a pressing issue, I stay late to get the work done. But since it is a pressing issue, you really don't look at the clock. Sometimes you're shocked that 12 hours have gone by when you put full concentration into a problem!

Now if I were one that couldn't get the work done in a short amount of time, then I would get an earful from my employer immediately if I came in at 11:00, or put in a 6 or 7 hour day each day.

BTW I have worked in the USA.

Regards,

Paul McKenzie

[JohnDavidHanna]

Paul
If you report at 11 you bill from 11! I can not justify billing a client for hours not worked because you are good. That would be a consideration of the rate of pay.
Regards,
John ( your new boss )

[Brad Jones]

In nearly every job I've taken, there was an employment letter or a contract which I signed upon accepting the job. This letter usually detailed the terms of the job. In contract work, it usually defines the rate of pay and what is is to be accomplished. In full-time, employee positions it has always defined the starting salary, bonues, and hours expected. In some cases these employment contracts stated the pay was salary (no overtime, number of hours worked can't be questioned) verses hourly.

In one job, I was salaried; however, I was paid for any overtime above 45 hours. In almost all salary positions, the 'stated hours' were 40-45.

When you hire on to a company, you will almost always sign an acceptance letter or be given a handbook that states the number of hours expected for the pay you are being provided. If not, you should ask for it.

Additionally, if you don't like the hours or the policies, you should work with management to help them understand the issues. If that doesn't work, leave.


As a manager, I have always believed that results are more important than hours. I've also believe that people that do more than 8 or 9 hours of real work a day become much less effective when adding additional hours.

Of course now I work as a telecommuter in a home office. This means I am always in the office.....