Meaning of Life

[Steve B.]

Part of the purpose for this forum was to contemplate life.. soooo...... got a question for all of you..

Was there a stage in your all-consuming programming life where you wondered what's it like to be out there having more fun? Did you ever scale down, or drop a side-business, because you decided you wanted more time spent with a girlfriend/wife, or just simply *get* a love life?
The whole catch-22 is that I want money for a secure future, but it would be nice to enjoy more of a social/dating life now. Learning how to catch WM_CTLCOLOR messages, or how to use QueryInterface will eventually be fruitful in landing a decent job. I'm sure being a pro at creating the most modern toolbar out there will be attractive to a employer.
And following trends to spot an entrepreneural oppurtunity and acting on it could make me wealthy,
....but dang, it seems like there are less-consuming ways to make good money *and* always have that nice companion on the weekends while you are growing in your career.
Did I choose the wrong career? I do enjoy programming -- (that's ironically the worst part of it, because it's more of an excuse to stay in this field).
If you have a brief or somewhat brief answer to any of the questions above, it would be interesting to hear.

[Steve Mallis]

I wrestle with this issue myself, daily. Right now I'm stepping back. I figure after 8-10 hours at work developing software I want to rest or do other things. I do go through periods where I do extra work, either for myself or on the job. I would love to earn extra money and learn more and more about programming. Unfortunately I don't think its any end to it. After a certain point you can, if you want, "have a life." But there is a cost. Others will start catching up with you, there will be more and more new technologies you don't understand, etc. The answer for me so far has been a trade off. I don't do some of the other programming efforts I would like to on my own, but do try to keep abreast of programming topics I feel are important. But then there are times when I wish I did more. Steven's (in DDJ) advises us to have a more balanced life. In fact, he claims its the most important career decision we can make.

Steve M.

[Tomaz Stih]

Life is like a guitar string. :-) You can't play only on one part of the string. The vibrations spread all over the string. Successes in life are shared among the different aspects of your life and build your character. The failure also has a tendency to spread as a cancer. Thus I agree 100% that taking care of all aspects of your life: career, health, relationships... is the best career move you can do.
In long term living a balanced life will not decrease but increase your productivity because it will introduce to you new perspectives that you perhaps were unable to see before.
I know having a serious relationship for two and a half years was the best thing that happened to me. It was self confidence from the relationship (an aspect of life completely different from programming) that gave me the will to finish my first level university study and am about to graduate at the second level.
Well to be quite honest the relationship is gone now. It worked both ways and she went to Cambridge to do her Ph.D. for three years. :-(
But...!

---------------------------------------------
Tomaz Stih, B.Sc.CS tomaz@nameco.com
Ob sotoccju 10 Nameco Group
SI-1000 Ljubljana http://www.nameco.com
Europe

[broc]

hi,
my real name is Catalin .
it's very difficult to answer to your question in a few words . 'having more fun' is a very vague concept . as a programmer you don't write programs but you create . this act of creation can be wonderfull when you don't see it like 'all-consuming programming life' .
i choose to be a programmer because i choose life . do you know about NP(non-polinomial)algorithms vs. P(polinomial)algorithms problem ? we know that NP includes P but we don't know if P includes NP . now , 'life'=NP & 'programming'=P .
sometimes it's hard and getting harder ... but than i remember i'm an artist of bytes and no work of art is easy to finish - you give life , probabily to something that milions of people will use . do you find this an easy thing ?
you become an artist when you have something to say to the world . do you ?
our days is very difficult to say something new . you will spend probably half of your life learning the "oldiest but goldiest" in programming so don't expect quick satisfactions .
here is my advice : if you don't have something to say as programmer , quit !
for example , i'm a romanian . many of my univesity's friends are now in other countries because they are well-paid there for their work ( ten times more than in Romania ). i chose to stay in Romania , to demonstrate that romanians can write soft in Romania and they do this well .
'I do enjoy programming' is not a good reason to stay in the field and if you are after a lot of money go away . in our field you choose a code and a CODE - if you know what i mean .
that all the story for now .
by and excuse my not too good 'english' ;-)

[Thinker2000]

I understand that your English needs work, per your disclaimer, but it's a little harsh to tell someone to "go away". I'm referring to the end of your message where you suggest that Steve "go away" if he wants to make a lot of money. I'm not trying to berate you,.. just trying to educate you on exact word usage. This particular word usage is a little demeaning.
And it isn't just the money, by the way, sounds like he *likes* his career choice as well.
He's just looking for pointers on where to draw the line between social life and career.

You went off on a tangent a little bit there :)

[Chris Wheeler]

I would say that the intended meaning was "get away" as in get away from what you don't like. :-) You are right about "go away" sounding harsh, though I doubt it was meant in that fashion.

Chris R. Wheeler, MCP
Pensacola Christian College
Desktop Programmer
cwheeler@pcci.edu

[broc]

thank you Thinker2000 for correcting me and thank you Chris for understanding me correctly .
"quit" , "get away" ... whatever ! i think i made my point and if Steve B. read what i wrote i'm sure he will understand what i meant . if not , he will reply to me .

[gpoulose]

Steve,

When time permits, pl. do read:

Leo Tolstoy's Resurrection* (Chapter XXVIII)

George

*Oxford University Press Edition is good.

[gangelo]

See my post "The REAL Meaning of Life" :)

[Saeed R]

here is my advice : if you don't have something to say as programmer , quit !

i say i hate this geeky job.
i hate looking for bugs like a terminator...
software design is like an art but it affects the way you think and make you believe that other people that you are dealing with you in life should respond to you like the computer and that has affected alot in my life.

[d_wzrdv_z]

Hmm...maybe you could win a scholarship to Oxford!

[mirage]

Just a comment. Life is precious, right now, we don't have much, only an odd 80 or so years. Hence, maybe we need to be looking for the "meaning" in life. (Are we so sure that a relationship is the answer to those times when we wonder what we are doing with our life?)

Lastly, remember the "old" saying: "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy (or girl)." There is a whole world out there besides that found on the other side of a screen (you know, you can taste it, smell it, feel it.) ; )

[Neil Turner]

"To be happy" - HH Dalai Lama

// Just keep banging the rocks together..

[Brad]

You can be a successful programmer and have a life, too. You just have to set limits, or find a job where you can. Most people I know get burned out on long hours after a few years (I never did them, so this is only my observation). If you're at a company for a while, and productive and knowledgeable, then more likely than not, the company would allow you to scale back and have a life rather than lose you in this job market.

Brad

[Chris Guest]

Just make sure that when you party, you party as hard as you work.........

[gatkinso]

Dude! Wake up! There is not a chain binding you to your computer. If you are a talented programmer, you still will be on Monday after an excellent weekend of mountail biking or surfing or whatever it is you do. I liked the response of party as hard as you work...it was right on the money.

Who is that blonde over there? I don't know either, but if you don't get up and talk to her, you will NEVER find out. You like the way your fingers feel on the keyboard? You just wait 'til you find out how they feel on her.

You and I will be dead one day - much sooner than you or I would like. Live your life how you see fit, but it sounds like you know what you want to be doing, and it is NOT being comsumed with programming.

It is a great job, but not a great life.




Linux, Windows, Mac's...they are All Cool

[Chris Lowndes]

Apply the diminishing returns theorem

For each extra hour spent solving a technical problem or two, a reduced amount of benefit will be received.

The same applies to a social life. An hour a week will never be enough but 40 hours will never be 40 times as good.

The crux is to compromise.

As soon as you feel the effects of diminishing returns on the one side of your life - switch to the other side.

If both sides are exhausted - it is time for sleep

It works for me

Chris Lowndes

[Russell Morris]

Been in the same situation myself lately. I'm 22, a CS major at GaTech and I COOP for a small software design company here in Atlanta. I work a good 50-60 hours a week, and am usually very tired because of my hours.

A good friend of mine made a very good point on this subject - <strong>you've got the next 35-40 years of your life to work</strong>. The time for being a stupid kid is running out quickly. Personally, I'd hate to wake up twenty years from now and realize I've been 40 my whole life.

I really love programming - the logic, the abstraction, etc... - so much so that I do it just for fun on my time off. However, if I spent all my time worrying about reference counting and threading-models, I'd be missing out on a large section of life. Even if I'm tired, I force myself to go out with friends and blow lots of cash on beer and do stupid stuff like throw up in cop cars :)

About the money - who cares? Sure, it's nice to have tons of cash and a nice car, but is that really worth waking up 5 days a week and dreading going to work? Is it worth spending all weekend saying to yourself "damnit, I have to go to work on Monday"? Money doesn't necessarily negate (or bring) happiness, but the outright pursuit of it - just to have it - certainly will. Given the choice, I'd rather be happy in an old Dodge than nursing an ulcer in a Porsche...

Our situations may not be exactly the same, but the philosophy behind my reasonings are probably still pretty applicable. Now, if you'll pardon me, I have to go fill the bathtub with dry ice and hang up the black lights :)

Good luck - and BTW, the answer to life is <b>42</b> (Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy)

Russ
--
Russell Morris
Georgia Institute of Technology

[RobertZ]

It's interesting to note that people who are most successful by anyones standard(money, fame, etc.) almost always had an 'opposite' side to their lives. Read Stephen Covey's books about this.

This is a great answer, and remember, you need time doing other things to engergize the creative batteries that keep your thinking (and problem solving) fresh!


Robert

[RobertZ]

This is a common question. Have you considered issues of confidence? Anyone who chases all knowledge will find it an elusive hunt. My experience has shown that anyone who feels the 'need' to know everything about a subject has to some degree a lack of confidence. This maifests itself in not being able to let go of a situtation or problem until it is resolved. Go home at 5:00 p.m. every night. Will you be fired? Will you be more productive? Read something non-technical, but keep thinking. Read history on any age or time. You will be surprised on the repetitions of ideas through the ages!

Have fun, be happy! There is life here on Earth!


Robert

[Henry Camacho]

The best thing I have ever done is to down size my time at the office doing programming to spend more time with my kids.

Many people say it can not be done, but it can. I spend about 5 hours in the office, get the kids, spend time with them till 8:30-9:00 and then get back to programming at night @ home.

The meaning of life is truly procreation, and that means kids, and that means spending tons of time with them.

HFC


Henry Camacho
Innovative Software Designs, Inc.
hfc@isd.net

[Cem Guvener]

I had a boss in my previous job with whom I used to go to a bar and drink some
beer at least twice a week. At one of those nights, we encountered an old beggar when we
were returning back home very late at night.
He asked for money to buy himself a bottle of wine. My boss gave him 5 times the money he was
begging for. I asked my boss, why.

He told me: "I pay you for writing software. Do you think that
those lines of codes are more valuable than the feeling of that beggar when he
gets his wine? He is now the happiest man in the world, but you will
start tomorrow morning again from FOR I=0..., like every day"

Since then I never use "i" as the variable in a for loop. :))

[Lemonhead]

It's true for me too, I'm having the best time of my life *now* and I've been lucky enough to know it from the time my first child was born. I've never wanted to regret that I hadn't spent enough time with them. My work and career have suffered in the sense that I now work considerably less overtime but this has been more than compensated for by my increased maturity, general level of happines, pragmatism, ability to get problems in perspective, dealing with pressure and stress - I'd even say as a result of playing with the kids I've become (or perhaps I just started to think of myself as) a more creative and expressive person.

Neil