Features I'd like to see in DevStudio

[Zafir Anjum]

1. The simple record - playback of macro. Actually I don't want the Version 4.2

behaviour exactly but would prefer that the UI be the same but at the same time

DevStudio should use a default macro name and actually create VBScript code for

it. With this scenario we can edit (and rename) the macro for later use if we

so desire.


2. File comparision between the contents of two windows.


I think I'll add more items later. Let's hear from you.

[Robert S. Wojciechowski Jr.]

I would like to see global search and replace, among all files in a specific directory, or just the files in my project.


Oh... and something like what VB has, which tells you the parameters for a function while you type it. I would like something that I could highlight or hold the mouse over, say, NetEnumUser, and it would give me quick parameter and return info. that would be a time saver!

[tomer dror]

this would be great...!


(mmmm. maybe it can be done with vbscript..???)

[Sunil Patel]

I'd love for Ctrl-Break (stop compilation command) to actually do it right away;

Not 30 seconds later, right away!

[Claude Turenr]

I think they could work on getting the resource editor better integrated in DevStudio. It would be nice if I could copy a dialog box in one instance of DevStudio, and past it into another.


I would also like it if the resource editor was a little more aware of SourceSafe. I have had a couple of cases where the resource editor would allow me to make changes to the the rc file, but since the rc file was read only I couldn't save them. If I didn't have the latest version of file checked out it gets worse. If I did check out the rc file what ever changes were made in the last version would not be reflected in the RC Editor and then when I saved my copy those changes would be lost. The only way out of this is to close DevStudio, check out the rc file and start it agin

[David Lantsman]

There's no simple way now to create a 256-color toolbar. I'd like to be able to switch the toolbar to 256 colors, just as I do for a regular bitmap resource.

[Hans Wedemeyer]

>>It would be nice if I could copy a dialog box in one instance of DevStudio,

>>and past it into another.


This you can do now.

In the current project, display you resources as you would. then do a File Open of the project.rc wherever it is.

It will open int the main windows and you will now be able to drag and drop. If you hold down the Ctrl key as you drag it copies, if you don't it Moves !! check this one.

The close the file where you got the dialog from.

BTW it works for all resources.


Anyway it works, I've used it at least 3-4 times.


regards

Hans Wedemeyer

[Hans Wedemeyer]

Zafir,

Checkout codeguru.com !!!!! VC macro's. the example works well


Hans Wedemeyer

[Hans Wedemeyer]

My real editor is MultiEdit for Windows. Coming from the DOS world where I used MultiEdit for DOS for many years, I find the VC editor a real pain in the rear end.


The macro function in MultiEdit is so EASY and powerful the user just about defines the way the editor runs. If you want a feature Add it.


Anyway, a very useful macro or feature would be a FILL feature for column blocks.


Also Math functions for column blocks.


A text ruler.


(Zafir, file compare in Multiedit is powerful )


Fill a column with a Series 0 to n or n to 0 or n to n


Multiple Copy Paste buffers that have a good user interface. ( MultiEdit has 26 such buffers )


Multiple File Search Replace ( someone else wants this also ) across selected files and directories.


Persistent Blocks.


Simple Stream/Line/Column block mode from the right mouse button.


Ability to "drop in place" another editor. Almost like Fusion, but Fusion lack to much to be taken seriously.


A tag feature where if I havethe cursor on a function name, it will take me to that function where it is defined. ( not the klunkey browers system )


A help system that works.

A hlep system that allows background color to be changed.

A help system that show the search word highlited.

A help system that allows double click on a key word and it highlites.

A help system that allows annotations Like the old VC4.x help syste.

A help system that allows a single Esc press to return to where I was editing.

A help system that helps.......!


Dockable Windows that can be locked. ( is this available and I missed it ?)


Hans Wedemeyer

[Iuri]

Yes, yes .. it works. And, without using ctrl key, you can "drag" them using the right mouse button instead; when you'll leave it, a popup menu will ask if copy or move the resource. This work even inside a dialog for dialog items.


Iuri

[iuri]

Yes, yes .. it works. And, without using ctrl key, you can "drag" them using the right mouse button instead; when you'll leave it, a popup menu will ask if copy or move the resource. This work even inside a dialog for dialog items.


Iuri

[Sean Dynan]

I HATE IT when I close a project workspace in the IDE and then try copying the project directory to somewhere else, only to be told by the Windows Explorer that copy has failed because the directory is still in use. I have to load a different workspace to break VC++5's grip on the original project's directory.


And how about a class browser that doesn't need to build the project first?


And how about storing multiple font/colour configs on the Options->Format tab?


And how about an option to select "Group By Access" as a default in the Workspace view?


And how about having Class Wizard delete method definititions as well as declarations?


And how about the vertical splitter in the file editor scrolling its two views independently like the horizontal splitter does?


And how about some way to export my IDE preferences so that I can quickly personalise a new installation of VC++5 on another machine, or whatever?

[Claude Turner]

>>> My real editor is MultiEdit for Windows. Coming from the DOS world where I used MultiEdit for DOS for many years, I find the VC editor a real pain in the rear end. << Simple Stream/Line/Column block mode from the right mouse button. < Ability to "drop in place" another editor. Almost like Fusion, but Fusion lack to much to be taken seriously. <<> A help system that works.

YES!

&gt;>> A help system that show the search word highlited.

YES!

&gt;>> A help system that allows double click on a key word and it highlites.

YES! YES!

&gt;>> A help system that allows annotations Like the old VC4.x help syste.

AMEN!

&gt;>> A help system that allows a single Esc press to return to where I was editing.

AMEN!

&gt;>> A help system that helps.......!

YES!


And one of my own..

A help system that doesn't break when you install new software (MSDN anyone?)


Claude Turner

[Guy Gascoigne - Piggford]

I pretty much agree, but wonder if part of the issue here isn't just improving the VC++ editor, which I can't say bugs me too much, but improving the links through to 3rd party editors. MS (nor anyone else for that matter) will never manage to make one editor suite everyone - I'm a die hard emacs fan personally. So letting you conveniently work in a foreign editor would be good.


Your comments on help are completely valid - I agree 100%.


Guy




Wander to Wyrdrune

[Guy Gascoigne - Piggford]

One of our biggest problems is managing nightly builds. We are a very mixed Unix and NT software house using ClearCase for version control. We want an environment where all of the nightly builds can be scripted and because of the volume of builds that we have to manage, idealy we want to do this from a command line interface, redirecting output to log files that can later be scanned for errors etc.


We also want the nightly build to use as similar to the same build environment as the developers - with 4.2 this was OK since the makefiles were actually used by the GUI environment, 5.0 broke this link.


For a start, makefiles are only created if you enable the option and or explicitly choose to save them. This is very dangerous because it puts the onus on the developer to remember to do it - and of course their build will work just fine if they forget since the intergrated build doesn't use the makefiles.


Secondly the makefiles don't appear to be part of the project so they have to be checked out manually from the command line (and if you add them to the project then they execute twice :-( )


Thirdly, when we did get things set up with makefiles we found that every now and again they were broken - quoting around paths would come and go causing the build to break. I gather that it was this final bug that stopped us progressing down this path - the others are very irritating but could be worked around.


Using something like the autobuild addin is a bodge, it does work and we are using it, but it falls short of the functionality that we used to have. Lets face it, why the hell should I have to write and compile a module to get the build behaviour that I need, it should be part of the package and I can't quite believe that they broke this so thoroughly.


Guy




Wander to Wyrdrune

[Peter Pearson]

I'd like to see the following new features:

Delete classes easily

Record actions (e.g. adding dialogs, placing controls on them and coding them) and then being able to save that as a component.

have more of the "VISUAL" style - build drop-down toolbar buttons like the undo button easily

[Guy Gascoigne - Piggford]

OK, one of these is a bug I'd like fixed: but when you change the addins that are loaded into VC++ it then screws up the key bindings for your macros. The key are still bound, but suddenly you find that they now run some new feature :-(


Secondly I gather that there is nearly no build support for a multi CPU machines (I say I gather since I don't have it yet). The compiler appears to be single threaded - it would be nice if getting a dual CPU box had a more measurable effect on build times.


Guy




Wander to Wyrdrune

[Eddie Fusaro]

We're programmers, not graphic artists. I think MS should put features in the resource editor that easily allow all of us to create great looking applications.


1- automatically scale 32x32 icons to 16x16 and viceversa

2- gradient fills to get effective dithering

3- auto drop shadows to create 3D look for icons and bitmaps

4- onscreen pixel rulers so that we can judge how dialogs will fit in 640x480

5- ability to have margins and grid on at the same time

5- bring back the ability to open the resources of a system DLL in VC

6- an extensive clipart gallery shipped with VC

[Guy Gascoigne - Piggford]

I'd like to see the per project Include path editing option be improved from being a single edit control. It's all well and good having a fancy way of setting the include and lib paths for the VC++ instalation, but this is no help when your include paths change on a per project basis. Because of this we end out with individual projects with 6+ separate directories in their include path. Adding all of these in the compiler options box is a pain, the list is 2 or 3 times longer than the control so you are always having to scroll backwards and forward to compare and check them.


Guy


Wander to Wyrdrune

[Hans Wedemeyer]

Guy,


&gt;>I'm a die hard emacs fan personally.


I agree about editor,s, one gets used to a particular editor and the learning curve it what stops use moving to a better one.


About two years ago I was fed-up with Multiedit not doing the Windows Editor, It was just about the time they decided to do one.

Anyway I got in two of the popular Windows editors and tested them. After that experience, and the promise of MultiEdit doing the "right" thing I waited and helped beta test the Windows Version of MultiEdit, it was worth the effort, if there's one thing these people can do ( American Cybernetics) that is write editors..

I'd almost like to bet ( without haviung used emacs ) that MultiEdit can be made to work ( keystrokes) so that it's just like the emacs. Then you would have the advantage of all the other features..


regards

Hans Wedemeyer

BTW they have a try before you buy version at the web site http://www.amcyber.com/

PS I do NOT work for these people in any way..

[Hans Wedemeyer]

>> I can't quite believe that they broke this so thoroughly.


Along with the help system..


Hans Wedemeyer

[Hans Wedemeyer]

The macro's being shifted around. Erk's me .. make the whole idea of key asignment useless. I posted a message asking if anyone had a fix, no on replied.


I have a Dual CPU system, and have done tests.


I'll not swear I know the answer to wether VC is using the dual cpu directly ( which is possible )

But. it's a common misconception that the program has to do that, it does NOT.


Windows NT4.0(sp3) is my OS, and it takes care of cpu allocations even to single threaded programs.


Just bring up the task manager and display two CPU usage windows and start running programs, the rsult are self evident, the OS is delegatig the available CPU's.


Build times.


The one test I did, when I first got the system ( BTW to be replaced next month with as new system 2 X 400MHZ etc etc )

The VC project was taking about 5 minutes to compile on a 133MHz pention with 64 meg ram. This include the browser data, which added about 2 minutes as I remember compared to compiling with NO browser data base.

Anyway on my two cpu system ( 2 X 200MHz PPro 256mega RAM) it took about 1 minute WITH or WITHOUT the browser data base stuff.

In other words the CPUS were both clearly being used.


If you ever go two CPU, there is no way back to using single cpu's...


There are problems though, you have to test code on single cpu systems, as the multithreaded code you write for the two cpu system fly's and may not on a sinlge cpu...


regards

Hans Wedemeyer

My new system will cost LESS thanthe 286/12MHz system I purchased in 1989, when adding 2 meg of RAM cost $950.- !!!

[Hans Wedemeyer]

>>4-onscreen pixel rulers so that we can judge how dialogs will fit in 640x480


I have been using a small ruler program for years, it's simple and shareware so if you want it let me kow I'll ship you a copy.


It has a simple Horizontal scale in pixel's for current resolution, dooble click it and it goes vertical.


With it you are able to measure the dialogs extent and know it it's going to fit on 640X480.


When I'm doing dialog design it's up and runnig in the background and ALt/Tab brings it up.


regards

Hans Wedemeyer

[Guy Gascoigne - Piggford]

Ah, but I have a full version of GNU emacs running on NT so I'm not really in the market for a new editor anyway.


I can use emacs fairly well with MSDev, but it could be better, so far I've not found much that I wanted to do with emacs that I couldn't manage - be it diffing files, merging them, telnetting to a remote machine, running a shell in an editor window, accessing and editing files via ftp all from within emacs. And those are just some of the things that I use, I know that you can read news and email with it, though I do have other progs for that. Using the GUI version with some of the more CUA compatible key bindings it's not even that scary for a non unix person.


I suppose the point is that we can always find specific things that out pet editors can do, what I want is more hooks in developer studio to facilitate using them.


Guy




Wander to Wyrdrune

[Guy Gascoigne - Piggford]

On the subject of VI, there is a very nice port at of vim for win32 at:


http://www.pcisys.net/~kscott/vim/


Well worth checking out if you are a diehard vi fan.


VIM for Win32

[Guy Gascoigne - Piggford]

Well it's a bit of both to be honest.


On the UNIX side we have a server that depending upon the build machine used can take between 2 and 5 hours to build. Depending upon our various ClearCase problems (of which unfortunately we've had quite a few recently) the NT client builds can take a couple of hours on a good day. The issue isn't just the individual build times, but the fact that the system has a lot of components, I can't give you details of the NT server since I don't generally use it, but for the UNIX based server (Solaris in this example) we have 99Mb of binaries in 116 executables, then there are the associated support directories and files.


I can't give you the line counts for all of this, but I think that it's a fair guess that it's rather high.


So, one reason for nightly builds is to provide a stable set of libraries etc. for other developers to use on a daily basis. Many of us link to component libraries associated with the server but don't want to spend all of our time rebuilding it.


The second (and probably more important) reason for all of this is Source Code and Release control. ClearCase allows us to be very strict about exactly what configuration was used to build a specific release. We have hundreds of developers working on different versions of the product worldwide, we have to centralize builds (at least on a regional basis), this guarantees that what we are working on remains stable and that any bugs get found very rapidly. etc.etc.


Nightly builds act as a necessary sanity check that multiple developers don't tread on each other toes.


So the short answer is, yes - big apps :-)


The product is Informix Dynamic Server.


Guy




Informix Home Page

[Guy Gascoigne - Piggford]

I can see how on a multi CPU machine even running a single threaded app can be faster since the OS effectively gets the other CPU to itself. Since the single thread cannot be scheduled to run on more than one cpu at a time, this does imply that there is enough OS work going on at the same time to make it worthwhile getting the second cpu.


I would still expect there to be better hardware utilisation if the compiler was actually multi-threaded itself though.


Guy




Wander to Wyrdrune

[Hans Wedemeyer]

I did a test, As per my configuration, VC shows as having 7 threads ( when task manager displaya thread it is active) and it goes to 9 threads during "build all" with cl.exe showing up as it's own task.

Now, cl, is showing 1 thread.


regards

Hans Wedemeyer

[AIR_TIME]

I don't know if its possible, but I would like to see Templates work better somehow..right now if you ask me I think the way you set up a Template class is the most conveluted thing. (putting the #include statment at the end..)

[Sunil Patel]

I'll second that; I'm fairly happy using Emacs along with DevStudio. But, yes

I wish there external text editor hooks exposed by DevStudio that can used by just about any editor.


The problem with Epsilon emulation on DevStudio...It works fairly well...but it fools me enough into believing it's Emacs and then I start using some key stroke for DirEd (or such) and then it starts doing things I never even intended!


-Sunil

[Eddie Fusaro]

Thanks for the excellent suggestions by you and Hans. I guess VC++ can do a few more things than I thought.

I tried PaintShop Pro and loved that too, thanks.

[Scott Finley]

Working on complicated projects would be easier with built in flow charting, and other design tools, even a CASE-like set of tools.

[Steve Quick]

I like to print two and sometimes four source pages per sheet of paper. The reduced size not only saves paper but helps to scan large source files.


Currently, I use the shareware program "fineprint" (which I registered). It works the way I want.

[Paul Wilkerson]

How about a faster Resource Editor. This one is slower than molasses, It takes me over 10 seconds to save the resouce file after editing, and this is on a AMD K6 233 with 128 MB.


This Editor feels like it was written in Visual Basic. :)

[Hans Wedemeyer]

There has to be something wrong with the setup.

I can't see where it should take that long.

I checked time using the most complex layout I could find, and it's only ever 1-2 seconds.

How big are these layout's that you are saving?


It is slow if I highlite several control and move them, but saving to disk, it's fast.


regards

Hans Wedemeyer

[Paul Wilkerson]

Thanks for the Response.


What setup parameters are you implying? Any Suggestions? Know of any good 3rd Party Resource Editor. Especially ones that are well integrated into DevStudio?


I just have a great many dialog items, close to 100 dialogs. The size of my RC file is over 300K. Nontheless, I can expect the Resource Editor to slow down a bit, but now the substantial numbers that I am experiencing is attrocious. In some instances it takes the Editor over 10 seconds between the time I click on an item and time I can do something with it. The resource interpreter is a (insert expletive. It is a remnant from the stone ages.

[Hans Wedemeyer]

That's a lot of dialogs...

You mentioned "saving" well I agreed about the editor being slow, I notice it more when I move 30-50 controls in one block, but the saving has never been a problem.


If saving is a problem. You have 128meg memory, what size swap file ?

I have 256meg memory and 512meg swap file.

Remember NT does a "lazy" file write, which means it needs cache to hold the stuff until it can actually dump it to disk, if there is not eoungh free memory, it maybe writting everytime, which will be noticed as a slow "save".


Also I have a dual 233 PPro (200 clocked at 233) and maybe I notice less as the second cpu is most probably doing some of the task..


No I don't know of any third party resource editor.


regards

Hans Wedemeyer

[Paul Wilkerson]

Thanks for the Response.


What setup parameters are you implying? Any Suggestions? Know of any good 3rd Party Resource Editor. Especially ones that are well integrated into DevStudio?


I just have a great many dialog items, close to 100 dialogs. The size of my RC file is over 300K. Nontheless, I can expect the Resource Editor to slow down a bit, but now the substantial numbers that I am experiencing is attrocious. In some instances it takes the Editor over 10 seconds between the time I click on an item and time I can do something with it. The resource interpreter is a (insert expletive. It is a remnant from the stone ages.

[Hans Wedemeyer]

Eddie,

I just found the source to RULER, and it came with MFC 2.0 MSDN disks.

Anyway, it will allow you to measure from full screen down to ONE pixel.


I work in 1152 X 864, so when I have a dialog bound to the 640X480 world, I "lay" the ruler agaist the side and can measure the pixel heght and width.


As it's copyrighted, I can post the code.


regards

Hans Wedemeyer

[phil dawkins]

I don't know if it's just me, i'd like to see lots of stuff in devstudio, but the main thing would be the avoidance of breakage in things that used to work ok.


Help now sucks big time. Dog slow on any system with an extremely bad presentation (arbitrary fonts, low information content). The make file mechanism is broken so one has to use these really crappy batch builds or try to use a semi-working make. The dependencies system is broken (probably a result of the make file breakage) so that there is no longer any guarantee on a build.


The thing that bothers me is that this breakage does not appear to be due to errors creaping in to the code, but rather because the basic rules behind the product (or behind Windows) have changed.


The only reason i use MSVC 5 is that we had to standardise. I consider 4 to be a much more usable product.


Come back Borland.


phil.

[Paul Wilkerson]

Nope: This is to a 4.3GB 5400 RPM UDMA Drive. But I have tried it under NT, and the performace does seem to be much better. So, for now if I have major resource work to do I am going to do in under NT.


Thanks for the suggestions

[Paul Wilkerson]

Sorry Guys, I must have resources in the brain. The whole resource implementation just needs more work. As an ex-mac programmer, I am just used to a different set of resource tools.


Better instantiation of Dialog Items to User Derived Classes, I use Subclassing alot, but I wish I could specify with the Resource Editor the user defined class of the item.

[Petr Novotny]

Hi,


I would like to see much prefer support for debugging:


1. Automatic collection of GetLastError() so that after a failed call I could immediately see it (and would not have to recompile the source with a GetLastError() call).

2. Some way to inspect GDI objects (it can be hard to find out what's in a bitmap, what's in a DIB, in a metafile or in a DC).

3. When going across CreateThread call (or alike), have the option to do a "step" in both existing and a new thread (the program stops both at the first instruction of the new thread and at the next instruction after CreateThread).

4. Possibility of catching and inspecting 16-bit mode exceptions (really neccessary on Win95 as GDI is 16bit).

[Petr Novotny]

It would be nice if VC could install on a computer for a remote debugging only - ie. copy and register debug versions of DLLs and OCXs and set up MSVCMON or whatever the beast is called.

[Jorge Schramm]

Some years ago I programmed with VB. In the VB-editor I could expand the include files (as read-only). This is sometimes very usefull, as you can find out where a file is included in your cpp file (because of nested includes).

[Bob Schiffrin]

Hello All,


When you get an function returning some kind of error/success code, it would be good if the debugger told you what the flags in the code meant.

Who wants to write mountains of code parsing the bits of a 32-bit HRESULT or SCODE, (there must be a good few more probably)and comparing them to a stack of flags just to see whats going on?


As a relative new-comer to MFC/Visual C++ i'm not actually sure that there isn't a facility to do this, if so i'd be interested to hear about it.

What do you reckon?


Cheers,

Bob

[John Crane]

I would like to see a wizard that lets you create a project based on an existing project without having to write a wizard of your own. OR the ability to just copy a project tree to another folder and then globally replace the old project name with the new project name. Doing a global search and replace on the DSP file doesn't work.

[John Crane]

Update the editor emulation modes and provide a deeper level of emulation.


The editor has emulation modes for Brief, Epsilon, and something else (can't remember). Who uses these DOS-based editors anymore? My editor roots go back to the Rand editor under UNIX, to Brief, to Codewright. I always thought the basic Brief UI was mostly good, but some features sucked and I was able to change them with new macros. I was able to do the same this in Codewright. I would like to see a Codewright emulation with more flexibility in defining keystrokes. For example, in Codewright I can copy/append or cut/append to the clipboard, move a line up or down in a single keystroke, edit multiple files in a single window, edit the same file in multiple windows, just from one function to another with a single keystroke. All of this through macros and the ability to edit BRIEF.DLL.


My solution is to run Dev Studio and Codewright together and edit files in parallel. This way I get the best of both worlds. Before Alt+Tabbing from one app to the other, I simply save all files, and the other app prompts me to reload the files. It's not too bad a price to pay for the added flexibility.

[R.D. Holland]

I thought 5.0 had the macro capability Zafir asks for. You get vb code you can edit and you can assign buttons to your macros.


Here are a few simple features I would like.


1.) "Fuzz" around the cursor when I am trying to grab the edges of a window to resize it. It is very hard to click a mouse without it moving a screen pixel or two. I typically have many windows up and I can't tell you how often I place the cursor near an edge, get the resize cursor, but when I click down to drag for resize, I end up activating whatever window is underneath.


2.) Automatic scoping of a window around the portion of the text where a break point is hit. Many times when I run debug, and I trip a breakpoint, I have to manually adjust the window so that I can see the code segment I am at.


3.) Related to 2.), I would like scroll bars along the main frame window so I can scroll the contained windows.


4.) On the "edit/breakpoints" dialog box, I would love a "goto" button. Many times I have multiple breakpoints in a file and I need to enable one of the breakpoints and silly as it seems, I don't always remember which line number contains the breakpoint I want to re-enable. Hence I have to keep jumping between the edit/breakpiont dialog box and the edit/goto box.


5.) A compiler that reports more than one compile error at a time when the errors are related. A prime example of this is misspelling of a variable name multiple times in the same source code. I often get one "undefined symbol" error no matter how many times that same error exists in the file. Hit "F4", and fix the error, recompile and find out the same error occurred a few lines later.


6.) True multi-processor support. I am sick and tired of having to boot a multi-processor machine with "/numproc=1" in my boot.ini file because VC++ programmers can't fix their dang exclusion problems. Yes, this has been reported ad-nasuem, that's how I was informed of the "\numproc=1" "fix".


7.) Related to 6.), I would like a "Word like" checkpointing of my editing so that when VC++ does crash on me, I don't lose as much work as I currently do.


8.) Perhaps this is simply a bug but many times when I am debugging and I choose certain commands I get a dialog box that says something along the lines of "this will end your debugging session". After choosing "OK", some such commands are not executed and I have to re-select the command again.


9.) A "build and run" command much in the same spirit as hitting "go" after making code changes during a debug session. The run should occur only in the case that the build succeeds (see 10).


10.) During debug, if I modify code, VC++ will inform me that the project needs to be rebuilt when I tell VC to "go". However, if the compile fails, VC simply comes on up in debug and I have no clue that the compile failed unless I sit around and monitor the build window. I would rather not have debug launched in such cases.


11.) Testing as I type to make sure. Yep. When I launch VC++ and continue working with another app as it is coming up, such as the brower I am using now, VC++ is intent on activating itself and grabbing the focus from me instead of politely coming on up in the background and waiting for me to decide when focus should be switched. I get at least two focus changes, the first is when the Msdev banner appears, the second is when the mainframe window first appears. The first one is probably desirable, but when I switch focus to another app after that one occurs, I don't want the mainframe window to steal focus right back again.


12.) Dependency check that rebuilds the "precompiled resource file" when I modify resources. Typical example is to add e.g., a string, and then try to use the string in your code. The compiler errors off with an undefined symbol, but of course, the resource.h file contains the symbol and I have to go blow away the precompiled resource file. Besides, I have a hard time remembering what that file's extension is. No sweat though, there is a tech-note on that one that can be found, assuming you manage to query with the correct search criteria.


13.) "Feature" I would like removed: Assuming a tech note on bug work-arounds is the same as fixing the bug itself!

[R.D. Holland]

Guy,


I'm checking with a friend that I believe was using emacs with VC++. He too is a die-hard emacs fan. It wasn't completely integrated but I seem to remember it worked good enough for him.


I think he wrote a macro that launched emacs on the current text file and when he saved the file from emacs, he simply relied on VC++ to inform him that the file had been changed and would he care to reload it.

[R.D. Holland]

Whoops! I see I should have looked before I leaped as you and others have already done the same, or equivalent to use emacs.


Are you using the automation model by any chance to achieve better integration between emacs and vc++?

[R.D. Holland]

I believe they do thread, to a certain extent, when compiling. First off, the compile itself is in its own thread, which allows you to continue editing while compiles proceed, and secondly, I believe the i/o used during compiles is in a worker thread itself which allows one source file to begin the compile phase while the previous compiled file is written out.


I believe this info was imparted to me while I was working with MS support to isolate various bugs that were fixed in SP3, some of which were thread related.


Of course, using precompiled headers is still the best way to dramatically speed up your compiles (but not "automatic" use which in many cases slows down compiles).


As for addins changing your key bindings, the automation model allows this, but I seem to remember it is recommened that addin writers not use it because of the problems you are seeing. We need an option that tells VC++ that any attempts by an addin to change key bindings should be ignored.

[Janus Kjempff]

Fast copy/paste code examples in help is a very useful feature.

[Claude Turner]

This seems like a simple thing, and most editors have had it for decades. How about changing the cursor when you are in overstrike mode. The little overstrike indicator on the status bar is not enough. I want something I can see where I am typeing so I know when I am in overstrike mode.


Claude Turner

[Antony]

You sad man.

[Antony]

Personally, I use EDLIN. No other editor looks like it, or sucks like it.


Anybody who uses anything else is a hairdresser.

[R.D. Holland]

At the top of a source file window, I would like to see the full path name. For some reason, VC++ seems to think it has to replace much of my paths with \...\ to shorten the path. Meanwhile, I still have enough space up there for another hundred or so characters (I run in the highest display resolution possible).


On the files/properties dialog box, I would like to see a full path name too. When the path+name reaches a certain length, the dialog box simply adds a \...\ in the path making it pretty much useless.


What's really silly here, is that, like a text window, there is still room on that line for many more characters which in my case, is more than sufficient to display the whole path.


Note to Microsoft. We're not in Kansas (640 x 480 display mode) anymore.

[Ben Kokx]

Of the two functions I miss is a simple key recording and playback function the most important one. And then I mean one where you can easily record a set of keystrokes (preferably in one of 10 buffers) and the replay them (like in the good old Brief) with a keycombination or a single toolbar button.

It looks like this is not possible in DevStudio except with an Add-in.

Although you can record a macro it has to be named (differently every time) which is a non-usable solution if you just quickly want to adjust a table with a few repeated keystrokes.


The second item is something I had programmed in Brief which should be possible in DevStudio as well but I never had a look at it. Using Ctrl-PgUp and Ctrl-PgDn (not assigned at the moment) to quickly move to next previous and next function in the source file.

[Jerry Coffin]

AFAIK, you're right that a simple kestroke recorder/playback requires an add-in. Fortunately, such an add-in has already been written, so all you have to do is install it. See:

http://www.codeguru.com/devstudio_macros/keyboard_recorder.shtml

[Andrew Barfield]

Icon Preview

A preview button (like the one for dialogs) for icons in the icon

editor. When its clicked it should show two copies of the icon; one over

the current Caption color and another over the current TaskBar color.


256 Color Icons and Toolbar Buttons

App Wizard should ask us if we want 256 icons and/or toolbar buttons.


Popup completion, syntax, and just plain help

Like VB 5.0, I think VC++ should have an array of popup help messages.

After all, MFC and plain C++ are more complex than VB.


More Detailed Samples

Everything should have a sample app about it.


Xtreme Software Online

[Oliver Hittmeyer]

when i first tried to design a propertysheet i nearly got a shock!

why can't the implementation of a propertysheet not be as comfortable as in vba - just placing the used controls into the "mother"-control (TabCtrl)?


it's ridiculous.... most "professional" s/w-developers are laughing at vba (calling it a kiddy tool) - but vba still offers some nice features, which aren't implemented within vc++ yet...

[Adrian Roman]

Some data-bound ActiveX that work!!! The DBGrid connected to MS Remote Data Object works like hell. They cannot be used... :(

[Stefan Niermann]

The setup pocedure of VC++ should store the settings of the last setup. Everytime I want to install only some feature it starts with the default settings!

[Steve]

Features I'd like to see? Oh boy! Well, here they are:


1) Auto indenting of public / private / protected / case in classes and switch statements. It's bad enough VC++ doesn't automatically indent these things but that it automatically tries to force it's unindented (and poor looking) format on us. I've gotten used to typing 2 colons then hitting backspace to get around this: case 1: -> case 1:: -> case 1:. It will bounce your line around a bit but it will end up properly formatted.


2) Allow user a choice of public / private order. I can't stand how all my Class Blizzard created classes put the public stuff first. Looking at it logically, people read top down so shouldn't the user first know what the class is made from before you see functions telling you how to manipulate those members?


3) Real choice between tabs and spaces. I know you can set for spaces but even when you do there are still annoying tabs put in in places which you need to switch to spaces if you want any hope of using your arrow keys to move around and have a clue where an arrow press will take you!


4) Remove the color toolbar or make it work. I made the mistake of using this back in VC++ 4.X to make my own bitmaps. I made a nice graphic, ran the program and the colors were all screwed up! The reason being is that you need to use the palette found inside the bitmap's properties dialog. Took me a while to figure this out and really makes me wonder why that color toolbar even exists if it doesn't work!


5) Get rid of that Transparent option found for most controls or just make the feature work.


6) No more "Would you like to rebuild" question from changing your settings. At least make it an option to turn this off. I mean, if we can access the internet through VC++ 5.0 we should at least be able to turn this unneeded thing off. "Do I want to rebuild"- Well DUH! I just changed the settings! No I think I'll keep using my old ones...(*&%$#%#


7) BAN MODAL DIALOG BOXES! IMPRISION ANY PROGRAMMER WHO MAKES ONE FOR AT LEAST 10 YEARS OR UNTIL THEIR PROGRAMMING KNOWLEDGE HAS BECOME OBSOLETE. Sure they're needed in a few cases but they are such an evil creation in general, society would be better off without the fear of ever using a "Find", "Find Next" or other such dialog only to find they can't bounce from the main program to the box when they want!


8) Put the tabs in the Workspace window in the order, left to right, most people use them most. Far left would be File View, next Resource View, next InfoView then last the ClassView. Or let people decide for themselves what order to put them in. FileView should automatically show all the files when opened.


9) An easy way to create user-defined keywords, like a way through VC++ itself. Making them seems like a secret only C++ gurus know about! Many thanks to the codeguru site for letting this be known!


10) As we can change text colors for different types of words, how about allowing different fonts for this as well? It would be nice to make comments in a small italic script font and maybe numbers in a bold font.


11) Really end all connections to files of a project after closing a project. It's completely annoying to close a project, go into Explorer to delete that project only to find it's being used! "But what's using it? Oh, VC++ is! For no reason! Now I must close VC++ or open a new project before I can delete that project" Very, VERY annoying.


12) GOOD HELP: SHOW ALL REQUIRED HEADERS FOR ANY HELP TOPIC ON ITS PAGE. SHOW REAL EXAMPLES FOR EACH FUNCTION.


13) End the SDWORD and DWORD datatypes. __int8, __int16 are so much clearer and cast absolutely no doubt as to what they are.


14) Make all functions which return a yes / no or TRUE / FALSE type anwser return zero for false and non zero for true. Maybe reword the name of the function to make this so. Like strcmp (I know Microsoft didn't make that but it's an example), maybe it should have been called: strinq for "string inequality" so that when they're equal it would return false. Too many functions are backwards to change them all, but maybe this should be kept in mind for new functions.



Guess that's enough venting for now.

[Steve]

I absolutely agree with the releasing old projects. I put that in my list. But with this suggestion:

"And how about having Class Wizard delete method definititions as well as declarations?"


You really want to give Class Wizard the option to erase code?! The Edit Code button doesn't even work half the time, when that file has never been opened it eats the file as often as it actually takes you to the code!


Remember, this is Microsoft were dealing with! I'd rather not have that code inside C++ at all. No telling what mouse movement or keystroke could cause it to malfunction!


:-)

[Steve]

If there's one thing I can't stand in C++ is how it refuses to give full path names. You go to check what the path of a file is in the path section of the file's properties box and what do you end up seeing half the time:


c:\project\...\program\file.cpp


Can someone tell me what is even the point of having the path written ONLY TO NOT SHOW IT?


This is just as annoying as those Modal dialog boxes they used for the Find dialogs!

[Steve]

I ABSOLUTELY AGREE!


I just got finished posting this exact same thing!


It infuriates me when I see that because it just makes absolutely no sence. Think about it, they're afraid the string will overflow and not be seen so what do they do? They intentionally ruin the string!


You're exactly right. It's pointless, annoying, and makes me what to scream when I see it!


What about that modal "Find" dialog box. I really hate that too.

[Steve]

I never had to use UNIX much so I came from a Windows / Mac world when I started programming so this may be why I really love the Visual C++ editor.


The thing I love most is the Virtual Space option. This is the only editor I have ever used, even word processors, which has this feature. I can use my arrow keys and know that "up" will take me up and "down" will take me down etc... Unlike most editors where pressing up in a long line will shoot the cursor to the right edge of the line above! Very annoying. Likewise, a mouse click puts my mouse exactly where I tell it to go. None of this bouncing to the end-of-line garbage.


And the "use spaces / tabs" option. True, this feature doesn't always work in 5.0 even though it seemed to work fine in 4.0, I never have to worry about annoying TABs inside my programs anymore. Likewise with above, a file with tabs inside it is about as easy to navigate through with the arrows as driving down a country road with your knees!


I would like to see more copy buffers, that would be handy and maybe the use of different fonts for different types of text (similar to the use of different colors) but that's really about all.


Back when I was forced to do some projects for school to run on UNIX machines I would do all my coding on my Visual C++ at work and then FTP the files to that server. That's how much I love this editor!

[Ronald G. Spencer]

Me too. We used to write and maintain software that controlled automation that

built the pontiac Grand prix using the vi editor... so all the keystrokes

are second nature to me and they will remain so til i depart from this wonderful place...


Ron Spencer

[Schmidi]

What i really miss in DevStudio are wizards for new db-programming-techniques like DAO and OLEDB!


Microsoft proudly present more and more db-programming-techniques but there are no wizards or instruction-papers how to use them. I always ask myself what to do with such innovations? (or am i too dumb to find helpfull information about that topics?)


please let me know what you think about that!

[Frederic Estrampes]

o Being able to drag a string resource to any position and have the resource IDs changing automatically.


o Being able to test a string resource on a MessageBox


o Ability to group the dialog box by folder


o An Auto-Hide feature (like IE4 search window in Full screen mode)for the Workplace Window


o Auto-hide of the debug window when no error are shown


o Hiding of the Property Window when a code file is active (.cpp,.h)

(auto display when a resource window is active)


o Ability to directly manipulate the Class Wizard data (particularly the useless Class View data)

[Yun Li]

I would like to see two more controls in Resource Editor's control dialog.

Currently, there are no such things like "Line", and "Shape", like in VB,

I feel sometimes it's very convenient to have these two when you designing

layout of dialog.


Yun

[Claude Turner]

I wish the wizzard had support for Queries with parameters. And that it would remember what table you were looking at the second time you run it on the class.

[Jignesh Patel]

Better output of MFC collection classes, in a debg window would be EXTREMELY useful.


Jignesh

[Bharat Gadhia]

I fully agree with your suggestions. They should either provide with

good examples or good tips or wizards like App & ClassWizard.

[Ed Halley]

Some things bother me daily about the "Skipping... (no relevant changes detected)" helpful detector in the project builder. It's a good idea, it just doesn't always work.


* It seems to not touch .bsc files, so it doesn't think it's really done compiling when it really is. I build, it finishes 0 errors. I run, it says I need to build project.bsc, it "builds" it in 0 seconds.


* It seems to skip some files that it shouldn't, especially when a change in a .h impacts the vtable of a class. Add the word 'virtual' somewhere and you'll see what I mean. A full rebuild becomes necessary, or you might have a wierd untrackable bug in your app.


* There's no way to disable it; if I wanna build it, darnit, I wanna build it.

[Ed Halley]

int strcmp(const char* a, const char* b);


It returns more than just zero or nonzero.

Just like all comparisons, a zero means there's NO DIFFERENCE.

If string 'a' < string 'b', it returns a negative number.

This is just like if 4 < 5, then subtraction returns (4 - 5) == (-1).

If you were to write strcmp(), you might:

int strcmp(const char* a, const char* b)

{

// compare characters until a difference is found, or strings end

int c;

while ((0 == (c = *a - *b)) && (*a))

a++, b++;

return c;

}

So strcmp("Hola", "Hold") == -3 because 'a'-'d'==-3.


This allows strcmp to be sent to qsort() or other routines that require a function pointer for a compliant comparison routine.


I think every person in their second semester of C coding school should implement all of the standard Posix string(3) routines in C, as an exercise.

[Steve]

I know exactly what you're saying. I know there's a meaning with the return value. I'm was suggesting that functions be named so that true is true and false is false. Just by renaming the function it would maintain all of it's functionality, and the boolean result would also make sence.


A function named something based off of String Inequality would return a false when the strings are equal and a true when they are not the same. Since true can be any non-zero value, unequal strings would still return the exact same value. Only now, a function dealing with String Inequality would return a FALSE when the strings are equal and TRUE when they are not equal. Just like the name implies.


I just dislike unnecessary inconsistencies. Where else do you see "!" used to determine when 2 things are equal?:


if (!strcmp("hello", "hello"))

{

// This looks approperate when the strings are equal?

}


if ( 10 != 10 )

{

// So this makes sence as well when 10 is the same as 10?

}


Had the function just been named differently, 2 equal strings would return false in a function marked designated for determining string inequality:


if ( !StrUnequal("hello", "hello"))

{

// This makes more sence because equal strings fail an

// inequality test

}



That's all I was saying.


I'll admit, I'm too used to the strcmp function to want to change this one. I just used it for an example because everyone who knows anything about C/C++ knows how this one works (and apparently I was still unclear... would have been worse had I used something vague). I've found too many examples of MFC functions returning a true on a false and vice-versa when all they would have to do is rename the function in order to make it return a logical result.

[Ed Halley]

I have several projects which share tons of common files and components.

Once a component is pretty much finished, I share it to other projects that could use that component. I use Visual SourceSafe, but any source control project that supports sharing files would apply here.


I'd like to be able to check out all files from source control, unless they were shared to other projects. All the files that are not shared are specific to this project. All the files that are shared probably don't need changes.


Related: I'd like to have a SourceSafe preference to never ask me if I want to check in a file from a place it wasn't checked out. If I check out a file in one folder, then I check in a bunch of files in a different folder, I don't want the shared file checked in from the wrong spot.

[Ed Halley]

Visual Studio 97 / VC5.0 IDE has the "Go to next/previous function in the file." feature. It's just not assigned to any keys. You could assign them to Ctrl+PgDn/Ctrl+PgUp if you want.


Tools, Customize..., Keyboard tab, Category=WizardBar, Command=WBGoToNext.

Assign it to whatever key you want. (Be sure you've selected the 'Text' or 'Main' editor.)

[Steve]

I'd like to be able to see and use the value of constants within the debug watch windows.

[Russ Freeman]

Unless you have a multithreaded version of cl the compilation process is very much single threaded. We tried to write a version of make that woudl read DSP files and that would allow the compile process to take advantage of multiple CPUs but we failed when we realised that there are many support files that cl locks exclusivley.


YOu can see that cl is single threaded by watching the CPU usage in spike from one CPU to another when building a largish(30mins) build. Try setting the affinity of cl to one of the CPUs and watch what happens.


In short the compiler batches up files with the same compielr settings and hands them en masse to cl which processes all of teh files before returning. Again this behaviour can be seen demonstrated by stopping a build during one of these blocks and then doing a build and watching the compielr build the same files you have just covered(only it had not written them out yet!).


We have a tool called BuildBin that we use, it knows enough about DSP files to knwo how to automate DEVSTUDIO to get the build done. We use it to build many DLLs and modules not just in VC, it also has access to an ODBC data source where we link to our bug tracking system where it increments the build numbers of EXEs , DLLs etc. It has proved to be a lifesaver - there is a similar product called Build Master but ours is much nicer.

[R.D. Holland]

Information overload!


I typically work with multiple projects in my workspace. These projects can contain many classes with many member functions. Usually, at any one time, I am working with a small subset of classes from the various projects that are displayed in that view. Scrolling up and down the ClassView can be quite a hassle. The same goes for the InfoView pane and FileView pane.


Hence, it would be nice if I could create an abbreviated pane of my own comprised of the classes I am currently working with. This might be accomplished by using the right mouse button to click in the workspace window which would bring up the commands list (currently limited to docking/hide/properties)which would have a "new view" option. Choosing that option would result in the addition of a new page (and tab) to the workspace window. Then to populate the new view, I would simply go, e.g., to the normal ClassView pane and highlight the class I want, copy it via control-c and then go back to the newly created pane and hit control-v. Result: Insertion of the class in question into a project dilemeted class list (first time a class is copied from a project, the project heading(+) should automatically come with it).


That way, I can have a much smaller view that contains only the classes (files, help topics) that I am currently interested in (I know I can use bookmarks for accessing widely dispersed help topics but this would be much more convenient, especially when it comes to my classes).


Also, when searching for a help topic, I'd like a better way to filter out unwanted hits. Ever notice how many times the same function can appear? I'd like a filter to toss out, for example, any Apple or Windows CE hits (or database object hits ...)

[R.D. Holland]

It would be totally awesome if I could highlight a member function in the ClassView and when I clicked the right mouse button I find a "print" option. Sure would save me from having to jump to the function, select the entire function and then run the print command. The same goes for the class itself. Highlight the class, right click, select print and voila, out of the printer comes the class definition, the whole class definition, and nothing but the class definition.


In fact, I just tried that strategy in the InfoView pane and print is indeed an option there. I guess I just want equal treatment under the right mouse button ...

[Geoffrey N Epstein]

Agreed. Codewright has this capability, so I keep it around to do this stuff.

[Toby Kinslow]

What #include statement are you refering to? I've been trying to get a template class to link for the past two weeks. I keep getting unresolved external errors.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Toby

[James]

Try putting the implementation in the ".h" file. This is the only way that I have been able to get template classes to link.

[Marc Britten]

That is being added in VC++ 6.0, and I heard about a plugin you can buy for 5.0

[Adrian Roman]

I really wish to be able to use a data source ActiveX and DBGrid together without any coding.

[Ryan Minnig]

Try deleting the .ncb and .plg files in your project. You will have to close the project workspace to do so. My resource file is only about 100k and on my machine (200Mhz, 80meg) the .ncb was a 4meg file and it took literally 35 seconds to open a dialog box with only 48 radio buttons, and over 50 seconds to select multiple buttons to move them or whatever. After deleting the .ncb and .plg files it took only 2 seconds to open the dialog box in the editor, and only 2 seconds to select all 48 buttons and move or align them.

[Karl Spaelti]

Easier SQL Stored Procedures Debugging. Each time I debug the same proc I have to enter the arguments again ... and again.


Plus: I seem not to be able to have a project which accesses a DB via DBLib in a workspace and at the same time have (another) DB project which accesses the same DB through ODBC in the same workspace and use the SQL Stored Procedure Debugging feature.


Karl.


Question: Does anybody know whether the SQL Debugging technology is licensable (to be used from my inhouse developped SQL editor) or whether this can be achieved through RDS or something? Yes, I know, it *can* be done. Microsoft did it. But how?

[Muthu Kumar]

Any help or pointer would be highly appreciated.

[Jason Coene]

I would like to see Microsoft Work on VC and put its time into developing it good and making great features rather than putting them in VB. I think that VB is an easy enough language that the VB developers dont need all the help and special features that it has.


Specifics:


BETTER COMPATIBILITY! ALL MS PRODUCTS SHOULD WORK TOGETHER AND THEY DONT. IE4 DOESENT WORK WITH INFOVIEWER (you cant access samples). They should make a standalone help viewer rather than making you have ie4. Then you get the visual j++ 6 cd in the mail which requires you to have ie4. (howd they jump from visual j++ 1.1 to visual j++ 6 anyways??? Got me!)


thers tons more but i dont have the time ( i have to go back to devstudio and get to work)

[M. Ruud]

Like Hans Wedemeyer says - I too would like a help system that actually helps. I'm always spending more time than one should think necessary struggling with the help design in VC++5.


K.I.S.S. == "Keep It Simple Stupid"


And MORE in one place. And DEEPER into the subject. Small examples sometimes save lots of time.


Just my humble opinion =)

[M. Ruud]

Writing MFC in assembler again, are we?


=)

[M. Ruud]

Umm, yes, i began wondering again: is it so that nobody can access the samples through the links you get in help with VC5? I thought I had done something wrong during installation, and since I'm rather new to VC, I ran the installation program once more to include them. The result? Total reset of all my preferences, and still no working links. I'd really like to have confirmed that they don't work, because then at least I can leave it alone, knowing it's not my fault... I'm currently pasting the directories from the CD manually, and I can live with that.

[Kyle Crane]

Agree 100% about the examples. I had a hard time beliving when I first started using it that there were NO example snippets of code. I'm often relegated to digging through mounds of MFC books just find exactly what a parameter is typicaly supposed to be.

[Kyle crane]

Agree 100% about the examples. I had a hard time beliving when I first started using it that there were NO example snippets of code. I'm often relegated to digging through mounds of MFC books just find exactly what a parameter is typicaly supposed to be.

[Kyle Crane]

I would love to get my hands on that ruler. Really sucks switching resolutions all the time.


Kyle

[Kyle crane]

I would love to get my hands on that ruler. Really sucks switching resolutions all the time.


Kyle

[Kyle Crane]

The only way I've ever seen it work is to put your function bodies in the ".h" file. I also spent a week trying to figure out what was wrong with my template class, this seemed to solve it.

[Kyle crane]

The only way I've ever seen it work is to put your function bodies in the ".h" file. I also spent a week trying to figure out what was wrong with my template class, this seemed to solve it.

[JJnJEFF]

i need one too

[Peng Shu]

I have programed for Win3.1 useing Borland C++ V3.1. I think workshop in BC

3.1 is more useful. specially when i need to get some resources (icon. dialog box etc.) I can get them from .EXE file or .DLL files.

now I'm using VC 5.0, i can find a way to do those. i mean VC should provide a way to get resource directly from .EXE file and .DLL file.

[Iuri]

But it let you do it ..


you have to click on open file, select "Executable files (exe,dll,ocx)" as File Type and "Resource" as Open As.


It will let you handle the exec resources ...

[iuri]

But it let you do it ..


you have to click on open file, select "Executable files (exe,dll,ocx)" as File Type and "Resource" as Open As.


It will let you handle the exec resources ...

[Jerry Coffin]

The problem here is with your development environment: DevStudio uses the Win32 functions to open, edit, etc., resources in an executable. However, Lose 95 doesn't support those functions. To edit resources in executables, DLLs, etc., you don't need to upgrade DevStudio -- you need to upgrade from Lose 95 to Win NT.

[M Ruud]

Wouldn't it be nice if all the user customization files were located in

one new directory so that they could be easily copied? Maybe selected in

the Tools/Options/Directories setting? I try to keep my files separated

by classifying them as code and data, where data is user created files.

So far i've found some of the files in a directory full of help files. The

help files can be reinstalled from the CD. The settings can not.

[Jeff Kohn]

If you're talking about custom tools, menus, and preferences, this stuff is stored in the registry. There is a tool on the Visual C++ owners site called DevKey that allows you to backup/restore these settings to/from a file. This makes it very easy to save your customizations and move them from one machine to another or to restore them after a re-install.


Jeff

[Jim Murphy]

Look out for VC 6.0 -- Include Visual Modeler -- A version of Ration Rose with out the Use Case view -- arguably the most important but programmers seem to like Class diagrams.

[Neal Glover]

This may already be fixed, I'm stuck using 4.0, but developer studio fills the source files with odd characters at the ends of some lines. I assume it's not including the linefeed in a CR/LF pair. Why it's hit and miss I don't know.


Whatever the case, the code is fine within Developer Studio, but if it's loaded into some other editors it looks like crap. If it's not fixed, it should be.

[Jeevan Sunkersett]

Hi Marc,


That would be perfect in VC.

From Where did u here of the plugin.

Is it downloadable?


regards


Jeevan

[Choi, Jong Hun]

I love vi editor!!

[Marc Britten]

ftp://ftp.wholetomato.com/wholetomato.com/VAsetup.exe


and of course the web page is


http://www.pholetomato.com

[Lee Alexander]

In VC6 you can now do command line builds. All you do is type "MSDEV /MAKE MyProj.dsp". This is really useful compared to nasty VC5 is when slow (Starting up) and prone to stopping automated builds with message boxes you have no interest in!

[Jeff Straathof]

http://www.wholetomato.com


The plug-in is available now for Visual C++ 5.0. Near the end of beta. Still free. Next revision out in a few days and includes Parameter Info.


If you use the web site to download, you can register to get notification of updates. No junk mail.


Whole Tomato Software, Inc.

[nigel dodd]

The extent of multithreading is trivial whereas it could be profound. It would be easy to set separate threads (equal in number to the number of processors) each compiling a different source file.

[gstolarov]

We are using DUNDAS - ulitmate TCP/IP. They have a class to load WEB page (as well as some other goodies). Give them a try. You have to pay for a library but they are pretty good.

[Jeff Straathof]

We have a free Add-In for VC 5 that gives you the smart editing features of VC 6. Get the download on our web site. The product installs [and uninstalls] easily. Use the software as much as you like. Just tell us what you think.


Some features:

Complete Word

Auto Parameter Info

Auto List Members

Auto Type Info

Auto Correct Case

Dynamic ClassView updating


-Jeff


Whole Tomato Software

http://www.wholetomato.com


Whole Tomato Software

[Torsten Jochem]

I would like to have the possibility to RENAME classes quickly...

[Jon S. Kyle]

When I'm viewing (for example) *.bat files I'd like the "bat" extension to still be there next time, rather than have to retype "*.bat" every time. If you don't want one of their predefined file types, you're out of luck.

[Peter Sjöström]

You forgot one thing you can do in Emacs: Play Tetris! :-)

[Steve McConnell]

I'm an old school programmer and like to see my listings in a print out. (I get tired of looking at a computer screen all the time). I would like to see the ability to format my listing better. Able to insert page breaks, different fonts, class headers and footers etc....

[Robert Townley]

Do you know there is a macro that can print out all open document windows. See "Tools" ---> "Macros" ---> "Samples"

Page breaks would be nice.

Limited headers and footers are under File --> Page Setup

[Chris Bilson]

I've just finsihed using templates on a really big project, and I have appreciated mush higher efficiency by using std containers and algorithms. I started using templates because the project was done using ATL, so I had to learn about templates anyway.


To use templates in VC (5.0) you must enable some features that some project types disable: You _MUST_ enable C++ Exception handling, as most of the templates throw C++ exceptions. Also, you will need to enable RTTI for some of the features, although I personally leave this disabled and my project builds just fine.


The complaint I have is the million odd lines of warnings you get because the typenames are two long. At first I tried to use a #pragma to disable them, but it didn't seem to work, then I saw in the knowledge base that Microsoft knows about this bug, and basically says there is nothing we can about it, except wait for VC 6.0. Now that 6.0 is out, I here many people saying that using templates in it is unstable, which is one of the reasons I haven't switched (my rule is to always wait for SP3 before switching to a Microsoft product!)

[Tim J]

VC suffers (and as a result, so do the developers) from being a single-tsk oriented system.


We should be able to set the priority of a build so that it doesn't kill the machine and we can do useful tasks while projects are building.


It would be nice to be able to put unused cpus to work building projects so that we can save time. (For instance - spawn a build from my workstation on a number of lab machines.)

[Andy St.Clair]

I certainly agree with the Delete Classes Easily feature.

One thing I would like is a form view like Delphi - I work in industry

and the Delphi form view interface is far far more appropriate

than the Doc/View and SDI/MDI used by MFC.

[phil]

hi everyone !


i just began learning VC++ this last month and managed to port an app i created in VB over. i did however just buy Borland's C++ Builder... it should be here tomorrow. from what i've read the product allows VB-like forms creation while enabling C++ compiled code speed.


i realized i was spending too much time fooling with the **** GUI. i just want to drag and drop objects onto forms and spend my time programming the meat of what i want done. i am not proficient at VC++ by any stretch of the imagination but i do feel there is an easier and more proficient way to go. i'll report back once i've used C++ builder.


phil :)

[Phil]

hi everyone !


i just began learning VC++ this last month and managed to port an app i created in VB over. i did however just buy Borland's C++ Builder... it should be here tomorrow. from what i've read the product allows VB-like forms creation while enabling C++ compiled code speed.


i realized i was spending too much time fooling with the **** GUI. i just want to drag and drop objects onto forms and spend my time programming the meat of what i want done. i am not proficient at VC++ by any stretch of the imagination but i do feel there is an easier and more proficient way to go. i'll report back once i've used C++ builder.


phil :)

[phil]

hi !


i just bought Borland's C++ Builder ! there is no comparison on the ease of use versus Visual C++. the visual part (forms creation etc) is more intuitive and the generated EXE's are fast. The book it comes with is excellent (by Sams... Kent Reisdorph) and it does static compiles (stand-alone EXE's) for $100 ! you can use MFC or OWL in the Prof version ($300).


i can see why seasoned programmers who 'lived' through the transition into windows are used to dealing with the windows API but i dislike it... it is sloppy. during that period i was programming in compiled DOS PowerBasic (not object oriented but structured like C). i learned C a while back and the syntax has grown on me again in the last few days. i've decided my BASIC days are over. i'm sick of the slow executables, DLL's galore, non-OOP, and defending a language that is second rate by design.


if i was to be selfish i'd say that i was glad many programmers have to use Visual C++ (aka my boss told me to) because Borland (Inprise) C++ Builder can seriously cut down development time. we all have fast machines so i see no reason to not let Builder3 handle the windows housekeeping. with Visual C++ you are forced to get in bed with the ugly windows API every step of the way. i know i am luck to be able to choose. if i was just starting programming and had the choice i'd go with Builder3 because it makes sense. Visual C++ made me feel like i was fooling with the housekeeping instead of doing what i wanted to do... code the meat of my program.


i just started programming under Windows 8.5 months ago with VB. about 1.5 months ago i got VC++ and ported my app over. a day ago i got Builder3 and ported most of the code last night. i must salute those programmers proficient at using Visual C++ because it is not an easy implementation by any stretch of the imagination. i do however think that your talents would be better spent with Builder3. if i was a high level programmer (say ActiveX control creation, usage of brand-new controls, you'll have to fill in here) i could justify usage of Visual C++ but i'm not at that level. many of my programs i write are for myself or my mentor and analyze the stock market so any compiled C++ language would do but Builder3 allows me to make it 'visual' fast. VC++ reminded me when i used to program in MASM.


phil :)


ps legal copy of Visual BASIC 6.0 Prof Upgrade or Visual C++ Learning edition for sale ! (write me) VB is still good for one thing... creating enum lists for all the activeX controls' constants which i haul into C++ Builder 3 ;).

[Phil]

hi !


i just bought Borland's C++ Builder ! there is no comparison on the ease of use versus Visual C++. the visual part (forms creation etc) is more intuitive and the generated EXE's are fast. The book it comes with is excellent (by Sams... Kent Reisdorph) and it does static compiles (stand-alone EXE's) for $100 ! you can use MFC or OWL in the Prof version ($300).


i can see why seasoned programmers who 'lived' through the transition into windows are used to dealing with the windows API but i dislike it... it is sloppy. during that period i was programming in compiled DOS PowerBasic (not object oriented but structured like C). i learned C a while back and the syntax has grown on me again in the last few days. i've decided my BASIC days are over. i'm sick of the slow executables, DLL's galore, non-OOP, and defending a language that is second rate by design.


if i was to be selfish i'd say that i was glad many programmers have to use Visual C++ (aka my boss told me to) because Borland (Inprise) C++ Builder can seriously cut down development time. we all have fast machines so i see no reason to not let Builder3 handle the windows housekeeping. with Visual C++ you are forced to get in bed with the ugly windows API every step of the way. i know i am luck to be able to choose. if i was just starting programming and had the choice i'd go with Builder3 because it makes sense. Visual C++ made me feel like i was fooling with the housekeeping instead of doing what i wanted to do... code the meat of my program.


i just started programming under Windows 8.5 months ago with VB. about 1.5 months ago i got VC++ and ported my app over. a day ago i got Builder3 and ported most of the code last night. i must salute those programmers proficient at using Visual C++ because it is not an easy implementation by any stretch of the imagination. i do however think that your talents would be better spent with Builder3. if i was a high level programmer (say ActiveX control creation, usage of brand-new controls, you'll have to fill in here) i could justify usage of Visual C++ but i'm not at that level. many of my programs i write are for myself or my mentor and analyze the stock market so any compiled C++ language would do but Builder3 allows me to make it 'visual' fast. VC++ reminded me when i used to program in MASM.


phil :)


ps legal copy of Visual BASIC 6.0 Prof Upgrade or Visual C++ Learning edition for sale ! (write me) VB is still good for one thing... creating enum lists for all the activeX controls' constants which i haul into C++ Builder 3 ;).

[phil]

since i just dove into learning VC++ and C++Builder3 in the last month i'll give anyone interested my thoughts thus far...


ActiveX:

***VC++ had tighter integration of ActiveX controls aka more information on constants, methods, and events (the controls i used were by MSFT).

***Builder3 hauls new ActiveX controls in very nicely (via OCX module) and i used VB to get values of constants (VC++ also lacks what VB has here)


Help:

***VC++ 6.0 help is messy, while i like the MSDN CD-ROM info they should limit the searches to only C++. plus you get a ton of hits to places that mention what you want but are no help at all. since i create cd-rom apps i dislike tying up one of my cd-rom readers for MSDN. trust me i used the help A LOT ! oh the help occasionally locked and had to be terminated.

***Builder3 help is good and hard drive based.


IDE:

***VC++ is more stable as far as IDE crashes but is very unforgiving if you screw up using the wizards. plus you can switch 'out' of MFC framework mode and the code ends up looking like spagetti (God bless the people who can read that stuff). save often !

***Builder3 occasionally just crashes (nice) but i can't say i was 100% sure of what the hell i was doing at the time (PEBCAK ? nice :) ).


Forms:

***VC++ forms creation is very basic and forces many housekeeping steps. ex. if you place a button on a form you're probably gonna have an event handler, right ? the wizard's wand ran out of magic... it's a pain in the neck.

***Builder3 blows away MS for forms. you can even see the PASCAL code and alter it to create new class members (sorry if i didn't say that right). oh and i don't like PASCAL either but it's easy to read an more object oriented than even C++ so we'll all have to just deal.


phil :)

[Phil]

since i just dove into learning VC++ and C++Builder3 in the last month i'll give anyone interested my thoughts thus far...


ActiveX:

***VC++ had tighter integration of ActiveX controls aka more information on constants, methods, and events (the controls i used were by MSFT).

***Builder3 hauls new ActiveX controls in very nicely (via OCX module) and i used VB to get values of constants (VC++ also lacks what VB has here)


Help:

***VC++ 6.0 help is messy, while i like the MSDN CD-ROM info they should limit the searches to only C++. plus you get a ton of hits to places that mention what you want but are no help at all. since i create cd-rom apps i dislike tying up one of my cd-rom readers for MSDN. trust me i used the help A LOT ! oh the help occasionally locked and had to be terminated.

***Builder3 help is good and hard drive based.


IDE:

***VC++ is more stable as far as IDE crashes but is very unforgiving if you screw up using the wizards. plus you can switch 'out' of MFC framework mode and the code ends up looking like spagetti (God bless the people who can read that stuff). save often !

***Builder3 occasionally just crashes (nice) but i can't say i was 100% sure of what the hell i was doing at the time (PEBCAK ? nice :) ).


Forms:

***VC++ forms creation is very basic and forces many housekeeping steps. ex. if you place a button on a form you're probably gonna have an event handler, right ? the wizard's wand ran out of magic... it's a pain in the neck.

***Builder3 blows away MS for forms. you can even see the PASCAL code and alter it to create new class members (sorry if i didn't say that right). oh and i don't like PASCAL either but it's easy to read an more object oriented than even C++ so we'll all have to just deal.


phil :)

[Trond-Eirik Kolloen]

I really would like to have a "module" or somthing that could have documentet my classes just like JavaDoc does.

Does anyone know about a program that do this? (And that also dont get confused by the MFC macros)


TEK

[Viktor Martensson]

I think there is another way as well..


*** f.h ****

template &lt;class T&gt;

class f

{

whatever();

}

*** f.c ***

#include &quot;f.h&quot;


template class f&lt;int&gt;;

template class f&lt;char *&gt;;

// This is not a universal solution, but if you know what template

// arguments you will use, this works.


template &lt;class T&gt;

f::whatever&lt;T&gt;(){...};

[Rex Myer]

I used XEmacs on Unix, but have yet to find it integrate well into a Windows IDE (i.e. VStudio). Where did you get your version and how did you integrate it?


Thanks,


Rex

[Guy Gascoigne - Piggford]

Check out http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/voelker/ntemacs.html

then look for a reference to VisEmacs, whilst the integration isn't perfect it's quite usable.


Guy





Wander to Wyrdrune

[Janos]

Try Object Outline 2.0 here: www.bbeesoft.com

Regards,

Janos.

[Sean]

Call getlasterror

[Wilka]

When you've got the cursor at a brace or bracket they should both change colour, like they do in Excel. If I've got a complex calculations (or if statement) changing the colour the brackets would help loads.

[GeorgeK]

&gt;&gt; And how about having Class Wizard delete method definititions as well as declarations?

In VC60 you can delete the declarations together with definitions using the Wizard BAR. It simply remarks the thing, so you can always bring it back...

[Alvaro]

Whe I want to show what an HRESULT error is from a COM function, I use _com_error, like this:

HRESULT hr = CoDoSomethingThatFails();
if (FAILED(hr))
AfxMessageBox(_com_error(hr).ErrorMessage());

Hope this helps.


Alvaro

[Alvaro]

YES!!!

Way back in version 2.x they used to show the full file's name on the title bar... and life was good.

Then they created version 4.0 and they decided to screw it all up!! What were they smoking that day?

And still today (version 6.0) it remains that way. I hope they fix it someday!


Alvaro

[crtracy]

I usually open projects from Explorer, so while your at it add a 'Disable VSS for all projects' checkbox to the 'Disable VSS' dialogs so I don't have to go through 10 OK/Cancel buttons before I get to the workspace. (I usually have 4-5 projects per workspace, and VSS bothers me about every one.)

I second the notion of an easier 'replace unchecked-out file with this local file' for after a stint away from VSS.

Back to VC:
Also, I'd like a 'Rename File' option on the pop-up menu in the Workspace/Project window. When a class gets big enough to have it's own file I usually end up creating a new file, renaming the old one to reflect it's new contents, deleting the old file from the project, and adding the two new ones. It would be more productive (and easy) to have a 'Rename...' from the context menu of the Workspace window.

Chris

[crtracy]

Of course you do. How is the compiler going to generate the 'real' code (that binds a 'generic' class template to a specific type) if it doesn't have the template definitions in scope when the template is instantiated (used)? Thats like calling new on a class that has only been declared not defined:

class CNotDefined;
CNotDefined* s_pFooData;
void foo() { s_pFooData = new CNotDefined; } // error

The compiler doesn't have enough information (size of the object) to create one. Similarly if you try to use a template before that template has been defined it will assume you are going to explicitly instantiate it in another source file, but you'll get linker errors when it finds you never did.

template declarations in .h files means you have to explicitly instantiate the templates (usually done in a single .cpp file)

or

define the templates in the .h file, and the template intantiation will happen in each source file in which they are used, with the duplicates eliminated automatically at link time

Explicit template instantiation works (VC5 and VC6, I use both regularly). If you don't know the basics of template instantiation I'd suggest looking it up (Stroughstrup 3rd Ed.).

Fellow future template master,
Chris Tracy

[crtracy]

When did the help system 'Work'?

When I was regularly using a copy of VC4 on a PI 75 the (then newly browser-based) help system was dog slow. Now on my PII 400 at home or my Dual PII 400 at work (MSDN served over the network) the index is instantaneous. Usually the only time I have to wait for anything is while doing a keyword search or when I switch topic sets at work (updating the index over the network takes time ??).

Curiously,
Chris Tracy
Who loves the MSDN interface over the old built-in browser-based one and still remembers the Borland 5 help &lt;ack&gt;.

PS. Great work with the new message board CG.

[dineshsv]

Needs :

1. Backend tools selection ex : instaed of cl.exe i shoul be able to call mycompiler.exe etc.

2. without opening a project i want to start debugging a executable without attaching it to a process.

3. In view-&gt;debugwindows, i want to have associated dlls view.

4. Independent menus for child frames.

Let me come up with some more features tommorow.
Cheers,
Dinesh.

[yoavkirsch]

set the following registry key to 0
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\\software\microsoft\\devstudio\\version(5.0,6.0)\\SourceControl\\AllowStatusUpdates

there are few more registery key in the visual 6.0 version and you may customize your visual studio and source safe integration

[Angel Lopez]

I expect a two-way UI designer, like Delphi, or C++ Builder....
Or, at least, something like VJ++ Windows Foundation Clasess, for use under VC++ IDE...

Angel "Java" Lopez
ajlopez@ajlopez.com

[Simon Rose]

Yeah, I think file comparisons would be cool too, but why not go a little further and provide file merging, maybe like how InterDev does it with HTML/ASP files. Now that would be nice !!

I'd personally also like to see a more intelligent ClassWizard, for example. Derive a class from CControlBar (or whatever), but be able to *easily* plug it into ClassWizard, but also be able to override basic messages for it.

Any other ideas ?