Getting the first programming job

[Zafir Anjum]

Here's a request I got from a person looking for his first programming job:

I never had any developing job before, but I been programming for about 2 years as a hobby that I love to do when ever I have a spare time. Recently I have been trying to apply for developing jobs, the thing which made me face some difficult questions that I would like to get some inputs on.

1- I always get asked what is my programming level in C++ and MFC on scale from 1 to 10, because I never had a real working experience in the field I found it very hard to evaluate my self because I don't know any body to compare my self to, and my question how can I go about evaluating my self without over or under estimation?.

2-Because I don't have a working experience, I always try to demonstrate the programs that I developed to give the interviewer an idea about my skills and what can I do. I want to know is this a good approach?

3- I usually get asked about the salary, how much am I asking for and I found this also a hard question to answer, because I don't know how much programmers ask for, if I ask for 20$ is it too less, or when I ask for 50$ is it to much. How can I determine the salary issue?

4- What is the things the interviewer looks for at the interviewed person?

[Jason]

My personal input/biases


1. A common problem for most programmers, I would say you are good. I'll give you a 7. just use 7 from now on.


2. Giving sample programs is a good idea as long as it is related to the position, like don't show a BMP manipulation program for a database job. Generally I don't show programs unless I'm there to run it, if something goes wrong and you're not there they will never ask you and just throw out your resume. Also, don't feel you have to supply source if they ask for it, especially good source code.


3. This is a horrible trick they try to pull on you, once I said I would take $12 an hour, thinking that no programmer actually gets paid $12 an hour.These are accountants and business managers you are dealing with, any chance to save a buck they will take. needless to say I got $12 an hour :(. Try turning it around on them so that they make an offer and its you that gets to make the decision. say "How much are you WILLING to pay me?"(of course if the interview i going badly this may seem a bit too demanding). You really should sit down and work out how much you need to get by just so you know what is too low for you. If you don't know what to say, tell them you will have to think about it.


4. Theres no answer for that, every interviewer is different. You just have to know how to read people and act how they would expect you to act, of course there is some difficulty when applying over the net.


well thats my two cents.. hopefully others will give their suggestions so you have a broad range of suggestions (I come off a bit jerky with interviewers). my rule in an interview is "If it sounds like they're going to screw you around, they probably will.. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is..."


Jason


I have some posts comming I promise!

[Howard Uman]

It's always important to be confident in your skills. Since VC++ especially with MFC are so huge, it's impossible to be a 10. Let them know you know that, but give them tangible examples of a problem you came across and the way you solved it. A simple "x" answer isn't really what they're looking for. Provide substansitive (is that a word?) evidence that you're capable of learning and adjusting because of the volitility of the development scene today.


Software examples can be offered, but don't camp out stating that they need to see them. The reason being is that a quality project can be done by one individual in 3 hours might take someone else 150 hours with the same end result. Also, be careful showing off stuff you hope to market, as you're opening up your ideas to be stolen. It can happen. Best to protect yourself. If you're just out of school, one of your more difficult projects might be a nice thing to show off.


Salary is best determined by the market and the position. Since it's your first job, you might want to investigate the market a bit before you accept a job. I suspect starting salaries would probably be in the low 40's right now, so you just might want to shop around. It's important that you find a job you're happy with and evaluate all benefits in your package (stock options are a good thing).


Confidence without arrogance is important. Let them know you've got skills to offer, yet expect to continue to learn.


Good luck - Howard

[Princess Anastasia]

I only have 1 response to the person who has programmed (for fun) C++/MFC but not ever professionally:


YOU HAVE 3++ YEARS programming experience in C++/MFC...

YOU WORK FOR Services, INC.


If you don't do it someone else will. Just get the job and learn.


Once in the job,

(1) Work diligently to learn as much as possible.

(2) Ask lots of questions.

(3) Share you knowledge with co-workers.

(4) Go to the next job.


Do this for 5 years and I guarantee, you'll be right in there.

[Bryan Lipscy]

I just signed onto my first programming job. So here is what I learned:


1) Take notes. That way if you do not get the job, at least you find out your weak spots. I was asked why am I taking notes during an interview, I explained my reasoning an he went quiet.

2) You will never know enough. There is always someone better.

3) If you do not know say, "I do not know." The question that stumped me was, "What is the difference between C and C++." I said that I have never been exposed to C so "I do not know."

4) If you say that you do not know, when you get done look it up and learn.

5) Be honest. If you lie, you will get caught eventually.

6) A plain readable resume works great.

[tomer]

Hi


Can you please share with me some ideas on finding ( legal ) programming job in the u.s..?


It seems to me that i have shortage of knowledge about the u.s


some questions i can think of :


1. How much taxes do you pay in the u.s ?, is it the same in every country..?

2. What about housing , how much i need to pay for a decent place...?

3. Is it possible at all to get alicense to work in the u.s..?

4. Should i go to the u.s and than try to find a job..?


thanks.

tomer


ISRAEL.

[Len Holgate]

I had to do this about 5 years ago and it wasn't easy, but I did it. I was trained as a Plumber but had been programming since school and had taught myself C and C++.


1. I found that I constantly underestimated my programing ability as I had nobody to compare to. I expected I was a 3 or 4 but once I actually started work and compared myself to the other guys I adjusted my score to a 6 or 7. The thing is, it's too subjective, so tell them this. C++/MFC etc are BIG subjects, you can't know it all, you might be a 10 in one thing and a 4 in others. Explain what you've done, what you know, what you know you don't know. I find it is essential to admit that you don't know if you don't know, but follow it up with an explaination of how you would go about finding the answer...


2. I wouldn't demonstrate a program but I would take along some source code. When I was sending out my first programming CV (resume) I included a short (4page) bit of code that I thought was well written. If they ignored it, fine, if they didn't then I hoped it would show that I COULD code professionally. Showing a program doesn't prove anything, anyone could have done it and the UI might look great but the code might suck. Showing some code and then being able to explain it in as much detail as they want and answer any design questions etc shows you know your stuff.


3. Read the local job ads and see what the general level of pay is for jobs you think you can do? I dunno really, I just told them my minimum (what I was on as a Plumber at the time) and accepted what they offered (no increase) because I was desperate to get into programming. Since then I managed to double my salary at the place I was at (in 3 years) and then moved on to become a contractor at which point I trippled that salary (dontcha just love big banks?). If you're good, accept anything to get your foot in the door and then just work your way up.


4. The things I look for when interviewing are confidence, honesty and the ability to convince me that you know what you're talking about. I like it when people say they don't know. I don't like it when people say they do but obviously don't.





Visit my home page...

[phil]

On the question of pay, this is one of the most difficult one for contracters just starting out to handle. I know one thing, though. The potiential client seems to think there is some relationship between your skill level and the amount of money you want. If you say $20/hr, often they reject you because they think you are not good enough to handle their work. Almost every client thinks their work in unique and very difficult. For an answer, you can just say that you have worked hard to bring your skills up to a level which allows you to do some very complex tasks and you are expecting a range from $35 to $55 an hour based on what your survey of the market allows. The $35 allows them to pay $49 and impress you that they are not cheap. The $55 allows them to pay $50 and impress you that they manage the companies finances well.

[Phil]

On the question of pay, this is one of the most difficult one for contracters just starting out to handle. I know one thing, though. The potiential client seems to think there is some relationship between your skill level and the amount of money you want. If you say $20/hr, often they reject you because they think you are not good enough to handle their work. Almost every client thinks their work in unique and very difficult. For an answer, you can just say that you have worked hard to bring your skills up to a level which allows you to do some very complex tasks and you are expecting a range from $35 to $55 an hour based on what your survey of the market allows. The $35 allows them to pay $49 and impress you that they are not cheap. The $55 allows them to pay $50 and impress you that they manage the companies finances well.

[Valerie Bradley]

I've been in the work force for about 2 years now, so perhaps some of my experiences are still valid. I've been both the interviewer and the interviewee, so perhaps I can provide insights from both ends of the table. :)


1) Other posts have mentioned that this is too large to summarize by a simple number, and they're absolutely right. This is really a trick question, you should take the advice of the other posts and give examples of areas where you're a 9 or a 10.


2) Having sample source code is a nice idea, although it's not always necessary. It also depends on the kind of job you're applying for. You may also be asked to whip up some source code in the interview, which would also demonstrate your skills and understanding of the language.


3) 2 years ago, when I was getting my offers to start work straight out of college, the offered salaries ranged from about $37,500 to $39,000. I would assume that it's gone up a bit in the last few years, so you'd probably be safe asking for something around $42,000 or $44,000. You also have to look at your expenses, the cost of living in the area, etc., and look at what other new college graduates are getting.


4) Most interviewers today look not only at your programming/technical skills, but also at your behavioral patterns. It's called "Behavioral Interviewing". Basically, they want to know how you handle situations. For example, you might be asked:


"Tell me of a time when you had to adapt to work with someone from another culture. What worked, and what didn't work?"


"What was your greatest success in using the principles of logic to solve technical problems at work/school? Be specific."


"Tell me of a time when your understanding of issues associated with a problem provided you with a foundation for generating a good solution."


Just remember to be specific! That's what the interviewer is looking for. And if you don't have a job-related example, that's OK. When I interviewed for my first job, I often gave examples from group projects done at school, from working as a counselor at Girl Scout camp, etc. And always be honest.


Good luck!


-Valerie

[Paul Doherty]

Valerie said:

> 4) Most interviewers today look not only at your programming/technical skills, > but also at your behavioral patterns. It's called "Behavioral

> Interviewing". Basically, they want to know how you handle situations. For > example, you might be asked:

>

> "Tell me of a time when you had to adapt to work with someone from another > culture. What worked, and what didn't work?"


Unfortunately this may become a more common question if those losers in Congress are allowed to raise the number of importable technical workers into the US each year. We already hit the quote this year (90,000?) and they want to raise it to 160,000 or so for the next few years. This is part of where that noise about "technical worker shortage" and "tons of IT job openings" is coming from. These guys (big business) would love for that perception to continue since that helps them push open the door to cheap overseas employees coming over here. The job market is looking great - if you're a new college grad or a foreign person entering the market (both are cheap). No one wants to pay the premiums for experienced people.


--

24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case... coincidence? I think not.


Paul Doherty CNA/CNE/MCP+I/MCSE

http://www.dfw.net/~pdoherty

Home of PC DiskMaster File/Dir Manager for Win95/98/NT4

[Valerie Bradley]

Disclaimer: This is not a flame! :)


With that said...


Another reason for asking this question would be if a company has sites across the world, and the job being interviewed for requires that the person be in direct contact with these offices. Business practices in the US are not necessarily what they are in other countries, even if the company was founded in America. I personally have dealt with our offices in Japan, Denmark, and England, and knowing how to work with people from other countries and cultures has been invaluable.


-Valerie

[mike hatlak]

Hello Zafir,


Lets take your questions one at a time.


1) Comparing yourself to others is a waste of time, both yours and the interviewers. It is only applicable if both of you know the person to whom you are comparing yourself. The question is meant to determine how confident you are with your own abilities. I might be willing to hire a rookie programmer but I shurely don't want one who is not even confident of his own ability to do the job I would pay him to do. Be assertive but honest, tell them you are good at what you do, and you know it. If you have shortcomings, tell them and see if they have work in other areas you are stronger in.


2) Sample code may be going a bit too far but a list of projects and brief descriptions of each are an excellent method of demonstrating your skill set to an interviewer. Hit the keywords of what you have done, things like Winsock, or Registry, TreeView and ListView, etc. This tells them you have been there and know your way around and can speak the jargon. I have seen situations where non-technical interviewers are doing the interviews while having no knowledge of programming at all. They may have nothing more than a list of keywords to listen for. In this case they will judge you on just two things, your attitude and the number of keywords you know and can handle.


3) Talk about your double edged sword, this one is a tough one. As a potential employer, when an interviewing programmer says he/she will work for $20,000 a year, I must wonder if they are any good at all. They rate themselves poorly by requesting so little salary. On the other hand, you admit to being a rookie looking for that first job, so asking for $60,000 means I can get someone with real experience for the same money, so why hire you? The answer to this question also involves what you can do, and where you live. If you can provide this information, perhaps I can help you pick a starting salary request, if you like. Those who know Win32 can pull one salary, but knowing TCP/IP will draw more, ODBC even more, etc.


4) As an employer I am willing to put up with having to train employees, help them in programming techniques, guide them in coding styles, and many other things. There are TWO things, however the applicant must have an demonstrate when they show up. They must WANT to do the job, that is they must have drive and convince me they will be in to work every day trying hard. And they must have COMMUNICATION skills. Can you speak intelligently? Do you interface well with others? I can teach you what I need you to know to write the software I need written only if we can communicate easily and without rampant, constant mis-understanding. If I put you with a senior programmer so that he/she can teach you what yopu need to know, what will happen? You will learn or he/she ends up going crazy trying?


So you see, getting a job in programming may not be entirely about programming. If you owned a resturant and needed to hire a cook, and the world's finest chef showed up and said he would work for free, but every time you asked him to do something he said, "No, I do not do that!" or "I do not understand!", WOULD YOU HIRE HIM?


Well, that's it. You have my e-mail address if you care to write. I would be happy to coach you, even by phone if you like. If not, let me wish you good luck in your quest. Best wishes...


mike hatlak

[Houstas]

Hello Mike,

it is clear what you are talking about.

I have even catched new important things for me.


But: how can I demonstrate my communication skills?

Okay, you will see them immediately interviewing me.

But perhaps there could be some clear advices, say, one or two examples

of things that I could prepare


I often see the questions like " what you will do in the case

of misunderstanding, for instance, with the people of another culture"?

Well, don't we have a clearly formulated problem to solve?

Aren't we both interested in getting a result? We will simply return

one step back and draw a new sketch... if my party really wants it!


thanks

Hou

[p murali]

[shahar shocron]

1. How much taxes do you pay in the u.s ?, is it the same in every country..?


about 15% max much less then the rates in israel

and they can be as low as 10% (about).



2. What about housing , how much i need to pay for a decent place...?


you can find apartments from 400-600$ (about) depending on location

area and size of the appartment (studio/1 bdrm/2 bdrm)

I can give you exact retes for prices in los-angeles area.


if you are talking about web hosting like having your own site

that's a different story and you can do it from here over the

net and even for free.


3. Is it possible at all to get alicense to work in the u.s..?


of course but you'll have to have a company willing to hire you first

or at least a university degree to apply directly.


4. Should i go to the u.s and than try to find a job..?


if you're planning to live in the u.s then you must move there anyway

if you just want to get a job. I'm sure there are a lot of company's

willing to send their bussiness abroad with the sortage in proffesional

programmers and all.


you can also e-mail me off the list


btw there are great programming jobs in israel

maybe it will be a good idea to get some practice and

experiance here in israel first.


good luck!


shahar shocron.

[Bob Place]

I do the tech interview for our department at MCI. Here is my thought (be they good or bad.


1: when asked to set a level on a scale of 1-10 say you are a 7-10. Then explain that if they sat you down at a computer and you had to get everything off the top of your head, you are a 7, if you have your reference materials, online help and the newsgroups then you are a 10 and there is no development task you can not do.


2:The way you answer the questions in a tech interview will show your skill level. A good interviewer will be able to pinpoint your skills and your potencial based on his/her questions. Mention the types of development you have done. Do not simply throw out key words without mentioning how you used it.


3: If you go to www.espan.com you can get an idea for salary.


4: If someone has programming skills (which they all do if they go to me) I look for the level of thier skill, and thier personallity. With the huge turn around in developers personallity is a biggy for the team. Even a average developer will excell if he/she fits in the team

[mark mosur]

I have a completely different advice for you. how to get your first programming job. Instead of going through the pain of interviews for a programmer position just find a software company you want to work for. Each such company has the customer support department. It is much easier to be hired by tech support. Just try to get a foot in the company. While you are there then start working actively getting involved with software development. Get familiar with developers, ask questions, show that you know something about programming. If you are really eager they might even give a small job like programming some useful tool. After a while you would know people who decide about hiring and getting into software development would be much easier than coming from the street. Also it is easy to find out what are the salary limits in the company. Just listen to people carefully and you will find out. This is a back door method into programming and it works. I know a lot of people who started this way.

[Alexander Galkin]

I am sure US is a center of almost all new technologies, best developers, greatest projects. Of cause Israel software industry is very advanced but opportunities of Israeli software market cannot be compared those of US in any kind. So to get a really good job in good US software company is really a fortune for challenging developer. I think average level of developers is higher in Israel but there are genius developers in US there are no in Israel. There is only one problem I encountered from my experience. Many US companies develop really large projects lasting many years. There are a lot of people involved in such projects. Companies have to care of back compatibility. This leads to the fact that new technologies are used very rear. It opposes to Israel when 90% of companies are startup small ones and they have to use up to date technologies. So when looking for the job in US be careful to find the one you would not be disappointed later. Also be ready to the fact you will be paid 30-40% less then get a American developer with the same or even less knowledge and experience. Particularly it is true for the first job in US. I have personally faced to such a fact that despite your knowledge and experience answer to requirements of many companies they do not wish to sponsor H1B visa. Another issue here is considerably longer availability then to hire US citizen. I can also say that to find good job without face to face interview almost impossible so I would suggest you traveling to US and scheduling an interview with several companies. Here I can add a comment that personal factor plays much more role in US then in Israel where you are often interviewed by professional and your skills are more important then how much you get now.

Salaries are also at least 2-3 times greater, taxes are a little bit smaller. But it depends where you work in US.

Summing up I must conclude that to find a job in US you have to be much better then average US developer, especially you must present to potential US employer something he cannot find in his own country.

[Boris Dinkevich]

First of all hello.


If you are planning a future in computers I as many over would suggest that you have a degree in computer science the higher the better. You can get a very good education here in Israel at low cost compared to US universities.


Israel can provide you with many interesting and good paying jobs and you will encouter far less problems here then if you go abroad.


You need to think very hard before doing such a major step and realy figure out why you want to go.


BTW: I knew a person who attempted (succesfuly) to move to US after making first degree in Computer Scince and Physics here and he asured me that it was far from being easy (or maybe even worth it)


Just typing what I can


Boris Dinkevich

A happy Israeli citizen .. atleast for now

[Joe Burnett]

I am a 25-year-old college student (who has gone back to school) working at a software company as a technical support representative. I have about a year of school left before I graduate with a B.S. Computer Science degree. Should I wait until I have graduated from school to start looking for my first software development job, or should I try to start advertising myself now a year ahead of time? Any advice (esp. via email) would be GREATLY appreciated.

[Neal Glover]

I wouldn't wait any later than the beginning of your last semester to start actively seeking a position. Prior to that I'd start attending job fairs, seminars, etc. where you can meet and discuss opportunities with company representatives and programmers.


The former is necessary because it's not unusual for months to pass between recognition of a need to hire and actual hiring. Hell, I responded to one ad at the end of a three week run. It was three more weeks before I was called for an interview, another before it was scheduled, and an answer won't come for another week or two.


The latter is necessary so you can get to know companies (and people), learn what they do, and what kind of pay and benefits to expect. That will allow you to make a better career choice. It will also let them know you. If you're exploring your options early you'll look smart (and better) to them.


Starting early also helps to single you out. Would you rather your resume arrive and be studied by itself one day, or along with a dozen others (or potentially hundreds if you wait for an ad)? If you wait for the ad you've got competition, if you don't they may call you in and never have to run an ad!

[Terry]

Hi Tomer,

Of all your questions, first answer :

Taxes are not the same everywhere in the world. It also depends on country,

and location also. In U.S., i know their are more taxes in Philadelphia and a

lot less in Houston.If you have any of your relative or friend in U.S. where

you can stay till you get a job is really good and thats what i am doing right now. Because if you are here you can go to the job fairs where you can talk

directly to the representatives of number of companies. You can talk with them on phone and basically meet them. But if you have housing problem in U.S.,

then i think you better look for U.S. jods from your country. You can also

joina university in U.S. livein the campus, and also can get legal job at or

off the campus. In the mean time you can alos look for jobs. That is also one

of the good choice. Pay for a decent place, assume $100 - $200, then again depends on location. $100 for living( eating, electricity etc.). A foreigner need H1-B visa for a legal liscence work at U.S. which the company will provide

for you if they decide to hire you. But if you are on a student visa and working

on campus doesn't require H1-B visa. This is all i can help you. But believe me

finding a job in u.s. with no u.s. education, u.s. experience & want H1-B visa

is really really really difficult. If your financial background is good, i would recommend to go for student visa, apply in a university take a undergraduate/graduate course and live there, make v.good money and find a job.


Good Luck

[Chip]

>1. How much taxes do you pay in the u.s ?, is it the same in every country..?


There are several different types of tax. Which ones you pay and how much they are depends on the state and local jurisdiction (city or county) in which you live.


First, there is a federal income tax. Everyone who makes more than $8000 per year (roughly) pays this. The percentage depends on how much money you make. If you live in a major city (Washington, D.C., Los Angeles, New York, Dallas, etc.) you might be able to get $40,000 or $45,000 per year plus benefits (health and life insurance, retirement plan, maybe stock options). The federal income tax would be roughly 20% (9,000 to 10,000 per year). In general, you don't pay taxes on the benefits.


Then you have to pay Medicare and Social Security (these are programs to provide money to older people to live and pay medical bills). That's another 7.5%.


You also have to pay state income taxes. The amount depends on the state. In some states it is very low (2 or 3%), while in other states it can be high (8 or 9%).


In some places, you may also have to pay taxes to the city or county in which you live. However, that is usually balanced out by lower state taxes.


Overall, you should expect to pay about 30% or so in taxes.


>2. What about housing , how much i need to pay for a decent place...?


That really depends on where you live. I live in Virgina, just outside of Washington, D.C.. My last apartment had two bedrooms, kitchen, one bathroom, living room and dining room combined. It cost $800 per month, including heat, water, electricity and airconditioning. My bother lived about 350 kilometers south, near a much smaller city. He had a similar apartment that was a bit bigger and had a fire place. He paid $600 per month. He now lives in Los Angeles. The same type of apartment costs almost $1,000 per month.


Food, gasoline, and other costs also depend on location.


>4. Should i go to the u.s and than try to find a job..?


Do you have anyone with whom you could stay? If not, it might be hard.


Chip

[Dimarzio]

If you're a programmer, apply for a programming position. Applying for some lame tech support job will do nothing but look bad on your resume. If you are serious developing software, there are development jobs writing test tools or white box testing etc etc.. Consider this: What good is 2 years or tech support gonna do you when you apply for that development position? You're better off not putting it on your resume.

[Neal Glover]

I think that's a great point. You can be the best/brightest programmer on earth but still be incapable of developing software that people would want to use. Unless a person is going to spend his entire career in a little room doing nothing but coding to someone elses spec, this type of experience is useful.


That's not to say it's ideal though. Given a choice, I'd still search for a programming job instead. A couple years in tech support will make you a better developer, but a couple years as an entry level programmer will do a hell of a lot more for your salary.

[SD]

The only key point according to me is to be Just true to yourself.

Don't try to bluff the interviewer (he may have faced more interviewes)

Don't pop up a number (1-10 scale just like that. Try to judge yourself according to the knowledge of concepts and key features of whatever technology he is talking about.


Give him an account of the real time problems you have faced in programming

(doesn't matter how long U have been doing it). If possible (based on his interest & time permitting), try to discuss the solutions. That makes the interview as a dicussuion/forum kind rather than a plain que-ans session.


Salary issue is totally personal. It depends on person's needs, scope of job being applied, reputation of the concern/company and so many things. It is better to give a minimum figure below which you will definately not accept the job.


Above suggestions are totally based on self-experience. Any kind of comments are welcome.

[Tomaz Stih]

Hello.


I am thinking about earning U.S. M. Sc. degree. I noticed that some

Universities are offering distance learning programmes and one of them is University of Berkley at www.berkley-u.com.


I am interested if degree from this Univeristy is appreaciated at

potential employees since they are not regionally accredited in

their own words:


"The University of Berkley is not regionally accredited, in the traditional sense, due to Restrictive Governmental Policies regarding non-residential, non-traditional educational facilities. The Government, in it's infinite wisdom, does not be lieve that a University can be an "accredited" University unless it has at least one classroom in which students can gather, sit in uncomfortable chairs, and listen to long, boring lectures. Furthermore, said University must have a structured schedule of meaningless classes for students to attend, regardless of the nature of the students needs.

We at the Universty of Berkley believe that our students are capable of learning in any environment, and that true Learning is a result of a ..."


Is this the same university Berkley Unix is coming from? Not accredited?

[Fekir Mohamed Kheireddine]

We are 3, VC++ MFC programmers from ALgeria,

Kheireddine ( 21 old )& Nasereddine (22 old) computer science engineer

Karim (24 old) electrical enginner


we master,

Visual C++, Visual Basic, Visual J++

plus ..

CorelDraw 8, Photoshop 5, Director 6,

harware maintenance


Installing Networks : Novel, NT 4 & 5, ...


but

No money ... !!! because in our bled,

all these skills are misunderstood,


Is in USA any work for us

if we have a chance, send it to us.

[Noam Sigal]

Ofcourse Not !


The "orginal" and famous for its Physics and Computer Science departments university is the "University of California, Berkeley" (note the e between K & L).


Quoting from the http://www.berkley-u.edu/best.html site:

"Note: The University of Berkley has no affiliation or connection whatsoever with the University of California at Berkeley!"

[Tomaz Stih]

Hello Tomer.


From my experience going to the United States can be very difficult if not impossible if you don't know anyone there. I planned a trip this year after finishing my first level (2.5 year) university degree and though I did have some experience I was unable to find any interested employer. In fact 99% of them do not even respond to your application.


However if you have any special skills and your country can't offer you an opportunity to develop your talent - there are other alternatives in different parts of the world. For example I had more luck in Germany (will probably do my internship there) where the salaries are honest (i.e. to 9000 DEM / month for programming in Linux and NT with C/C++ with average experience) and companies are much more straightforward than in U.S.


Also you should think about alternative ways getting abroad - for example students of technical sciences can use IEASTE internships - it provides you with legal background, settlement and up to 9 months internship - plenty of time to find a job.


Oh, yes, potential employers, here's my CV:

http://www.nameco.com/tomaz.stih

[James]

I did a tech. support stint before I became a full time developer. The one thing I learned from my support role is how difficult and intimidating any hardware and software can be for regular users. I emphatically remember this anytime I am doing Windows or Web programming and it helps me keep the regular user in mind. Another plus you get from doing tech. support is an excellent understanding of hardware, operating systems, and networking that NO programming job will ever provide.


On to other hand, I would not recommend that anyone out of college with any computer based degree to take a tech. support job. It would definitely be the kiss of death for most companies as Dimarizo alluded to. I did my tech. support stint while I was in college.

[James]

This might work as long as you do not work for a large bureaucratic company that has crazy hiring practices that make it impossible to move around from position to. Human Resources is almost always your biggest obstacle in these cases regardless how many managers you have on your side that want to hire you.

[Ed Haynes]

I can't agree more when it comes to personality and fitting in. But skills are still important. We've had some great people work here, but great people don't always make the best programmers. Experience doesn't always mean they are a great programmer. You can have ten years experience, or one year's experience ten times. I've been out of school for 4 years, and I'm having to clean up messes created by guys with 10+ years behind them.

[Karim Lounes]

I want to work in the U.S., but I live in the U.S. I study in the U.S.I look like the U.S. people. The best part is that I am Algerian.




My web-site

[kalpesh mehta]

how can i get visa for u.s.a

what document i need to submeet in embaasy

how can i get job

[Once and Future Consultant]

This depends on what country you live in now and what country you are a citizen of.

Different countries have different agreements, or lack of agreement, with the USA.


Also, it depends on what industry you want to work in. From the fact that you posted

here, I assume you are in software. That is good. It is easier in software than in many

industries.


You should check with the nearest USA consulate or embassy for information. There

are also sites on the web with information for many countries. Go to altavista


www.altavista.com


and search for immigration information for your country to the USA.

[Karim Lounes]

I wrote almost 1000 words, but I lost them. Apparently, even when I wanted to respond to your request this message window misunderstood my writing style and

deleted everything. So, good luck.


Karim's web site

[dzitam]

Well, I don't know where you live, but if your willing to go to seattle, you might want to think about contracting at microsoft.
I started there with no experince and over 50k a year,
now, 2 years later I make over 100k and have more offers than I know what to do with.
Microsoft is one of those companeys that only wants to know if you can do it.
it is the best working enviorment in the world.
pa couple of good companeys to go though
www.mpl.net
and
metro

good luck
Mike